 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2005-10-17 17:06
I have a brand spanking new RC Prestige Eb clarinet which plays beautifully for an Eb, except for one note. Open G is at least 5 cents flatter than all the notes around it (E, F, F# and throat A G#). It is quite noticeable when playing a G major arpeggio and having to really lip up the G - it seems unusal but I am sure it can be corrected. I guess of all the notes, open G is the one that uses its own tone hole not common to any other register. So what do you think I should do? The pad above the hole (under the throat A key) is already sitting quite high. Is it necessary to adjust the hole? I don't want to do anything that will stuff up the rest of the instrument because it plays so nicely.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2005-10-17 17:10
Not the first RCP Eb that plays that way for some people. I've seen the issue remedied in some cases with a different barrel, or possibly venting the note with a sliver key or side key to lift the pitch a little. Try things that are reversible before letting anybody start carving on your horn.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-17 17:23
I had the total opposite with my R13 Eb - the throat G was very sharp in comparison to those around it, so I've filled the throat G tonehole with enough wax to flatten it.
As this tonehole is only used for the throat G and not used in any other register, it can be opened up to bring the G up to pitch without affecting any other notes - and always have maximum venting for the throat G so it doesn't sound stuffy next to the F# and F below, or the G# and A above.
But do take it to a trustworthy repairer to sort it out, and keep checking it with a (preferrably your own) tuner while you're with them. The throat A and G# keys will need to be taken off, but it can still be tested buy plugging these holes with blu-tack so the G can be checked without having to put all the keys back on.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-10-17 17:59
Try setting the G pad (beneath the throat A key) higher. Sand down the cork on the bottom of the extension of the thumb ring, or under the extension on the ring-key for the left index finger. You could also float the pad further into the cup or have a thinner pad put on.
If increasing the venting raises the throat tones, you could put a thicker cork under the throat Ab or A key, or both. As a last resort, you could have the hole beneath the F# pad fraised, but it's better to try reversible measures first.
You could also try a slightly shorter barrel, making adjustments to the A and Ab corks as necessary.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2005-10-17 18:43
check the tuning of this note in relation to (middle) C and clarion C, after you've warmed up with a few minutes scales (and pulled out 1mm?)
then compare it to thumb F and throat A
you should be able to get C-G-C in tunes
G should be sharper than F by 5c ("in tune" would be preferable of course)
A is often sharper than G by more than 5c (can adjust this by filling in the upper hemisphere of the A tone hole)
the situation above would be "normal" E flat tuning
have you lifted the key off and checked the tone hole is clean? (no fluff etc in the hole)
if the G can't be sharpened by opening the Fsharp pad up a bit, and the rest of the horn has good relative tuning then the only other options involve removing wood. The fact that this note is so out of whack with everything around it means that a change of mouthpiece/barrel could only sharpen the note at the expense of the surounding notes.
i don't know if there's anyone in Aussie who is experienced at undercutting- there isn't here in NZ. i'd suggest going to Clarinetfest Next year, taking the eefer, and getting Francois or Backun to work on it. It should be an easy job
(i had exactly the same problem with my R13 Bflat, and it took about 15min, little bits of black wood dust fell out the bottom, very scary)
donald (who'se late for work)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-10-17 23:36
Removing material from the tone hole may have serious effects on any other notes which have the left first finger lifted, i.e. clarion C (thumb-only) and many notes in the octave above that, especially on an Eb clarinet. Any such work definitely needs somebody REALLY experienced in this specific area, or you could have a botched-up instrument.
Edit: Please ignore this post. For some reason my mind was thinking clarinet fingering, but saxophone mechanism. Silly me!
Post Edited (2005-10-18 11:18)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-10-18 02:41
I'm with Bob here. Raising your eyebrows can correct 5 cents. If everything else is more precise than that, consider yourself extremely fortunate.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: coasten1
Date: 2005-10-18 02:55
Chris P wrote:
I had the total opposite with my R13 Eb - the throat G was very sharp in comparison to those around it, so I've filled the throat G tonehole with enough wax to flatten it.
How did you fill the tone hole with wax? Someone in my clarinet section has a very sharp A and Bb. We determined that putting cork on the A key would not allow it to rise as high which dropped the pitch a little but it is still sharp. Maybe waxing the A tone hole could drop the pitch even more.
Thanks
tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wes
Date: 2005-10-18 04:52
To raise the open G, perhaps your repair person could slightly enlarge the small tonehole under the A key button. This hole also very slightly affects the A and the Bb as well as the clarion open D, rarely used. An expert tuner can fix this in about 10 or 15 minutes. However, if the G is also stuffy, one could consider undercutting that hole to raise the G pitch and response which would take a bit longer time. In this case, the clarion open D would be hardly affected, not that you might use it anyhow. Good Wishes!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2005-10-18 06:53
kia ora
just to make it clear for Gordon- i didn't undercut the hole myself (re my R13 described above) but it was in fact done by Francois Kloc. As i said, there is no one in NZ able to do this work really competently.
other things to consider
- if you take the top ring key off (so that the pad under the A key is gone), and then replace the A/G#keys (which you probably had to take off to get the other key off.....)..... ok, if you do this you can get an idea of what pitch your G will be if there is NO PAD over the hole.... if it's sharp enough for you with no pad (or too sharp), then the problem can be solved without undercutting.....
- problems with raising the pad include issues with it hitting the underside of the A key.
- raising the pad by sanding cork away from the "thumb ring arm" is a good place to start, only remember that if you take away cork from between the arm and the clarinet, it will raise the pad without affecting how low the thumb ring travels when closed. Cork from between the Thumb ring arm and the other linkage arm with raise the pad, but may mean that the thumb ring could need to be depressed below the tone hole chimney in order to close the pad (BAD THING TO BE AVOIDED). i know that that "reads" a bit complicated, but it's worth taking note of.... the height of the thumb ring can have a noticable impact on, among other things, technique and legato (depending on how high you set your standards)
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2005-10-18 09:36
GOrdon - the hole in question (underneath the throat A key) is never open except for when playign open G, and throat G# A and Bb. This would make me think it wouldnt have any sort of effect on the thumb C or any other note.
Donald - when pulling out 1mm or so, I can get the middle and clarion C in tune and the throat A and G# more or less in tune... but the open G is way lower. More than 10 cents and it is uncomfortable to bite so much to bring it up. The cork pad is already sitting quite high above the hole so I don't think it is the venting. I have tried it with the 2 Buffet barrels it comes with, as well as much Chadash barrel and its all the time...the Chadash has better intonation and sound over the entire instrment though except the open G obviously. I think it is going to require some work. I do know of some people in AUstralia who are capable.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: donald
Date: 2005-10-18 10:42
re Gordons point on enlarging the hole= if the "capacity" of the clarinet tube in use is enlarged, then Gordon is correct- the pitch of notes not actually using that hole can be influenced (as per lecture etc from Morrie Backun). This explains how a tone can be voiced by adjusting not only the tone hole from which the sound is emitted (or is it "emmited"?) but other tone holes nearby. i didn't really believe this until i saw someone in action and first heard/saw the evidence.....
However, i understand that if the hole is widened at the "fraising juncture" (ie- where the undercut section meets the cylindrical section of the tone hole) without affecting the diameter of the hole where it enters the bore, AND this occurs on the upper hemisphere of the tonehole, then the enlargement (which would be slight anyway) will have neglible effect as it is sort of "hidden" (while the tonehole has been effectively "moved higher" up the instrument, sharpening the note). Opening up a cylindrical tonehole with no fraising (as throat tones sometimes are) IS more problematic.
i'm sure that Backun/Chadash/Rossi/Ridenour (just the first names that come to mind) could elaborate and use more suitable language etc. I am just repeating what i have heard/seen from watching this stuff happen. When someone who really knows what's up gets to work- it can be like watching magic! (but the results are real)
good luck
donald
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-10-18 11:19
Aussie Nick. Apart from the issue Donald mentioned, you are quite right.
For some reason my mind was thinking clarinet fingering, but saxophone mechanism. Silly me! I have edited the offending post accordingly.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-10-18 13:43
While the pad under discussion is usually not a factor, there is the alternative "open D" fingering (where the D above the staff is played with all "holes"(including the covered by the pad under discussion) wide open plus the register key. This was mentioned above but kind of lost in the overall discussion.
It's not a fingering that I use very much (other than once in a great as I attempt to play some screaming Goodman stuff), but others may use it more than I. If the problem was as severe on this little horn as it seems to be, I'd gladly give up an alternate like open clarion D for an in-tune and consistent middle of the staff G any day of the week. Those upper tones are easier to lip into place in any event.
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
