 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-10-12 05:59
As the title suggests... I'd like to know who's playing on Toscas and what do you think of them?
I'm still trying to determine if they're a flop or if Buffet really has revolutionised the clarinet world, because I'm looking at new clarinets maybe possibly.
Thanks.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-10-12 09:50
Dr David Etheridge plays Tosca these days
Phillip Green (NZSO co-principal) also plays them, and is really really happy with them- in fact, tonight and tomorrow he is playing the Mozart concerto with the NZSO. He loves them, especially the intonation.
donald
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Author: OpusII
Date: 2005-10-12 10:17
Just try them, some people love them and some find them terrible..
I think it's a good instrument. I just couldn't live with the keywork and the projection (personal feeling), but they're really worth trying!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-12 12:02
I think the keywork looks dead cheap on them.
You would think if you're paying top whack for them, they'd at least look like you'll be getting your money's worth, not using bits from student models (B10 pad cups and crows foot stand out a mile). Looks like someone got a bit over-enthusiastic with the keywork buffing as there are no sharp bevels left.
So what happened to the 'Elite'?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-12 12:14
Prestige all the way for me.
Elite and Tosca to me were buffet mistakes. Too bad they can't seem to copy the innovation of Selmer these days.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-12 12:30
Shame the 10G is assigned to production history, but at least they're still making the Recital, which is the one I thought wouldn't last as long as it has, so hats off to Selmer.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-10-12 15:17
The Signature is also a great clarinet (although I am not crazy about Selmer clarinets in general).
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-10-12 15:37
Buffet (or Selmer, or anyone else) would revolutionize the clarinet world if they came up with an instrument that overcame all the deficiencies of the players who use them. Until that happens, I think we can classify these changes as incremental, but very meaningful for certain accomplished players. On the whole though, I think most people would benefit more from $2000 spent on lessons than an extra $2000 on the horn.
And David, there have been those who have criticized the Tosca exactly for emulating Selmer too much.
As I've said about other equipment (reeds, mouthpieces, ligs, etc.) having a diversity of options is an asset to the clarinet community. Chris P. complains Buffet did away with the sharp edges on the keywork. Somebody else might applaud not snagging skirts and sweaters or barking knuckles on the pointy parts. So, Morrigan, go try one (or many) for yourself. It might be a dawdle, or it could change your life.
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Author: Connor
Date: 2005-10-12 20:36
I bought a Tosca in January, and am now in the prosses of returning it and buying a Yamaha G. Why? Something is horribly wrong with my Tosca! The third parcial does not respond (the altissimo end) and the chelamu is a quarter tone flat on c, c#...up through g#. I wonder if perhaps the bore warped, however, when i initaly played the horn for purchase, it never played well up high. At the time, i assumed it was player error, and untill my college professor actualy played on it, i was told i was playing incorectly. As for intonation, in the absence of ensamble playing experiences over the summer, i never knew the instrument was so horribly flat. I never botherd to play with a tuner. Oh well, live and learn! As for other people persuing a tosca...if it works, play it, however, be very very very very cautious and try as many different brands as possible.
Good luck
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-12 20:43
Why not have Master Technician Morrie Backun look at it and determine what the actual problem is?
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Author: Connor
Date: 2005-10-12 20:52
"Why not have Master Technician Morrie Backun look at it and determine what the actual problem is?"
Because Bil Jackson seleced me a realy good yamaha, and a refund from buffet makes more sence than another couple hundred dollars on my current horn + the year of bad habits that will be learned while my horn is on Morrie's repair list.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-10-12 21:23
Refund from Buffet?
That's a great deal if you can get it. Bil's a wonderful teacher and player, so you are in good hands. And the Tosca's price is so overbloated that you can probably end up with several hundred dollars left over too.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-12 21:44
So it's not just the low F that needs the correction vent then.
I knew there was something sinister about this extra vent key, why should this clarinet need it when all their others don't?
Oh yeah, Selmer Recitals can have this (thumb operated) vent key fitted as an option, but I've never seen like this, or even seen anyone using one with a low F vent.
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Author: Connor
Date: 2005-10-12 22:50
I did notice that at least the F was in tune!
Ha ha-- Bil's Design on the yamaha's is far superior, no extra key, yet when you depres the standard low F, a vent key opens. When the octave vent is depresed, the F vent is closed.
Bravo Yamaha
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-10-13 08:32
there have been a number of different designs for "low F correction keys" over the years- mostly on German made clarinets (either automatic or thumb operated).
however the key that Connor describes on the Yamaha has actually been available from Selmer for some years. When Alessandro Carbonare blew everyone away with his performance at OU Symposium 1996 (or '97?) he was using a Selmer Recital with this extra (optional) key. I recall my friends and i listening to an hours music, and maybe hearing one or two notes out of tune (i recall, one bar in Deb Prem Rhap that went astray, but that's all).
My old clarinet teacher, Peter Scholes, had a thumb vent installed (i think by Guy Chadash) on his Orsi clarinets- C/B were in tune, F/E were flat, but if you needed to you opened a vent, using a thumb key, that sharpened the low notes (same as above, but not automatic)
at least the Tosca key was a new idea..... as far as i know
donald
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-10-13 10:10
Ok so apart from the vented F controversy (which I appreciate), any comments on the bore itself, the sturdiness of the mechanism, does your repairer hate working with it?
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-10-13 10:28
Maurice Reviol (ex basson maker for Schreiber) told me that there is a design flaw- you have to take the post for the lower joint rings out in order to get the rod out of the chromatic B/F#/D# bannana key..... i might have misunderstood him, but i'm pretty sure that was the case (if it wasn't this, it was something similar somewhere else on the instrument). He emailed Francois who confirmed that Buffet was aware of the "problem".
i don't acutally own one of these instruments, so other than that i can't comment
donald
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-13 10:33
I haven't had the opportunity to work on one yet, but I'd assume the cast keys are pretty sturdy - they are on my bass and that keeps it's regulation very well, even with those huge cast key pieces which can be known to bend easily.
The one key that would cause concern is the low F correction key touch itself - look at the bend on that, and the fact an adjusting screw goes through one of the highest points of stress.
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Author: rbell96
Date: 2005-10-13 21:15
Hey,
I had a masterclass with Joan Enric Lluna today. He plays toscas and sounds fabulous!
Rob
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-13 21:35
Maybe his one has had all manner of work done to it to suit him - there are a lot of pros that endorse various makes and models of instruments that could be set up especially for them, or they end up returning them with alarming regularity to the factory to be tweaked - Heinz Holliger endorses Rigoutat oboes, but I'd never buy one, I just don't like the workmanship. If I was to pay top whack for any pro level instrument I'd at least want the thing to look well made as well as the ability for it to play well, and play in tune.
Same applies with Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, Yamaha, etc., etc.
I've just finished putting a Selmer SA80II alto together - would the high F key screw go back in? Would it ****! That's probably why the front F touch is always bent so far round to the right on these saxes (towards the main action pillars and miles away fron your left index finger when you need it) - to make room for the high F key screw to go in! Either that, or take all the LH main action off again just to put the high F key on, which is too much hassle.
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2005-10-13 21:39
Rob, I had no idea you posted here...
Guess who I am...your Burgmuller today was lovely.
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Author: rbell96
Date: 2005-10-14 18:11
Hey Dan,
Thanks for your message! You played superbly yesterday!
Rob
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-10-15 00:21
Chris P wrote: "Maybe his one has had all manner of work done to it to suit him"
Or maybe not. I've tried eight Toscas and they are excellent instruments. I didn't buy one because I can't produce my ideal sound on it, but that's personal. Otherwise the intonation and eveness of tone is fantastic. No extra work needed to be done on any of the Toscas that I tried.
Chris P also wrote: "I knew there was something sinister about this extra vent key, why should this clarinet need it when all their others don't?"
Have you ever played a Buffet clarinet?? Finally they found some kind of solution to this sharp 12th.
By the way- I know MANY fine oboists who play Rigoutat (eg. principal oboist of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra)
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