 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-10-11 22:59
Hey, I'm new here, I actually googled and found this forum.
My rig needs some more openness... I really can't get enough for some reason, and the #1 cause of frustration is actually my reeds. I use a combination of Blue Box and V12's, usually between the two boxes I have I can find a few of those "golden reeds" that just work perfectly. But do you guys have any other recommendations for something with a really open sound but very little buzzing and distortion to speak of?
My clarinet is experiencing a buzzing sound problem on the lower octave (throat tones) notes C, E, ang G for some reason, actually, and I need to get it fixed. Any ideas about what it could be? My suspicion is that it's the pads, because F/F#, D, and B do not buzz since they close the pad below the notes in question.
At any rate, I use:
--My Buffet R13
--A Vandoren B45 mouthpiece
--the Rovner Light ligature
Thanks for any suggestions. I'm thinking of right now upgrading my barrel to the Chadash barrel, again, looking for that nice, open, responsiveness. I tried my barrel versus my instructor's and mine seems to be muffled/fuzzy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-12 02:04
Mouthpieces I can use to blow my brains out and not find a limit (in decending order) are:
- Woodwind K10M
- Pomerico Ebony 1L (may have a hard time finding the "L" facing)
- Hite
- Eddy Daniels 1
The K10M actually inspired my landlord to have me close all my doors and windows !!!
.......Paul Aviles
Post Edited (2005-10-12 02:06)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-10-12 14:32
MD1032 -
Welcome to the board.
The buzzing is probably caused by pads on which the skin covering has come loose. Look at the underside of the highest open pad below each buzzy note, and press the center very lightly with something not too stiff -- say, the non-business end of a paper match. If the surface moves at all, that's what is causing the problem, and the pad needs to be replaced.
As for more volume, there's a simple, free exercise that helps a lot. Roll up a cloth swab or handkerchief and stuff it up the bell tight. Then finger middle B (everything down and the register key open) and blow like the wind. You should get a very stuffy clarion Eb. Then, blow harder and loosen up until you can get a halfway decent sound.
Then, by changing your tongue position and that of your soft palate, you can play several overtones above the Eb. Keep at it until you can play bugle calls.
Then take the swab out of the bell. You'll be amazed at the volume and openness.
It's not easy to get this into your playing. You'll need to go back and forth many times, swab and no-swab, but once you find out how to open up, blow full speed and let the instrument play.
Don't worry at first about how it sounds. Once you get the right feeling, you can learn to sound good at all volumes.
Try it for a week and give us a progress report.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2005-10-12 21:29
You might inquire if Buffet would ream out the bore a little for you.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-10-12 21:51
I have a feeling it is indeed the pads (as to the buzzing), but I just had one replaced (the skin on it actually partially fell off, I ripped it off the rest of the way, and then it leaked... nice one), and now it's buzzing again too! I can't understand it, I'll have to hit the electrical tape tomorrow and plug some of the trigger keys up to see if they're the culprit.
Also I should mention that all of my pads have turned dark brown for some reason. The finish is coming off onto the pads and they appear very aged when they are in fact, not at all. Could this be affecting their performance?
Paul, I use the Hite Premier in marching band with my B12 (pathetic clarinet, but it has that great Buffet feel and works well compared to other plastic clarinets, though stuffy on the right hand) and it gets some good volume but sounds terrible. I use the B45 for this reason. It has much better tone, but 80% of the Hite's volume. The 5RV has amazing tone, but it's like blowing through a stirring rod.
Arg, I'm so picky about this stuff and I don't have enough money to be picky with!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-13 09:58
Dear MD 1032 (or may I just call you MD?),
The Hites I have are the "Artists" series. The one I gravitate towards most these days is a "J" or a slightly more open tip. I have never had a Hite that was not a decent playing mouthpiece (when will the endorsement $ start rolling in????).
As for the 5RV, the one with the LYRE desigation (longer lay than the one without) may be more your speed given that the B45 is a medium length lay. At any rate, with limited funds, you must purchase wisely if you can at all. Find a local place that will allow you to play test a bunch (prefferably with no restocking/cleaning fees) and pick the best of the lot.
There are still many good choices under $80.
..........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-10-15 02:47
Now can someone clarify what increasing the facing versus increasing the profile does for the mouthpiece?
As for the 5RV Lyre, I actually hated it, moreso than the regular 5RV. I just found it was impossible to get a decent sound of overall, and not easy to play with at all. There was one area where it worked, any kind of pitch bending or embouchure flexing or air movement beyond that and the results were less than pleasing. The 5RV is fairly limited also, but I found I could force a little more air through it, and its focus and tone were absolutely exceptional. But then again, no pitch bending whatsoever, and no volume compared to the B45.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-16 20:54
Dear MD,
This is where we need someone like Ben Redwine (Genusa Excellente) to clear all this discussion up with some seriously hard numbers. All I know is that the two main determinates for "feel" of the mouthpiece are the TIP OPENING and the LENGTH OF THE LAY. Tip opening is the distance from the tip of the mouthpiece to the tip of the reed. This is actually critically balanced with the length of the lay - distance from the tip down to where the reed makes permanent contact with the mouthpiece.
I have seen a post from Ben Redwine where he stated that players who prefer longer facings are uncomfortable with the short ones and vice versa. I wholeheartedly agree with this. Your experience seems a bit contrary, but may have more to do with the peculiarities of the individual mouthpieces you have.
By "profile," if you mean the overall shape of beak such as the difference between the Vandoren Profile 88 and those without that designation, it is only a matter of embrochure comfort. You can "take in" the same amount of mouthpiece with an 88 and have a smaller apperture OR just "take in" more mouthpiece (but I think that might promote the tendency toward prefering a longer lay......Ben???).
........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-10-17 02:20
By profile I meant tip opening. I'm used to calling it that.
By the way I've used and M13 (they only come in Profile 88) and I don't like it at all to be honest. It feels weird.
All right, here's the deal, I need to try a bunch of new mouthpieces and barrels. What's the best way to do this? Can I buy a bunch on WWBW and then return the ones I don't like for a full refund?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2005-10-17 03:32
M30?
There I go with my prejudices again.
I think all Vandoren are made in either 88 or regular but this makes for so much variety some distributors might be throwing in the towel.
I don't know WWBW policy on this. Call and ask.
My advice on the mouthpiece/barrel thing is to concentrate on one at a time. Too many variables will make a rational choice almost impossible. That is, unless the barrel choice is only a difference in the length to make up for pitch of the new mouthpiece.
..........Paul Aviles
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-10-17 16:41
The length of the lay and the tip opening are only two of many important mouthpiece characteristics.
Among others:
- the shape of the baffle
- the width of the side and tip rails
- the width of the intersection between the tip and side rails
- the shape of the intersection between the throat and the bore
- the size and taper of the bore
Of these, the baffle is the most important -- even more important than the lay and tip opening. This is the area where artist mouthpiece makers make their reputations and earn their money.
All these measurements are inter-related. Changing one often requires compensating changes elsewhere.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2005-10-17 18:13
Sometimes when players feel that they need more openess it is really that they want a mouthpiece that is more free or less constricted feeling. Sometimes a mouthpiece can be open, yet hard to blow, and vice versa. You might try some of Clark Fobes products. He makes mouthpieces at different levels from student to pro. I find that his mouthpieces are very comfortable blowing and produce a nice full tone with lots of volume. The tone is nicely contained with a good center which projects very well. Often a more open tip spreads more, which may not carry as well because it is more difuse. Woodwind Brasswind and Muncywinds both carry Clark's products and will alow trials. You can find info on his products at: http://www.clarkwfobes.com/
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: redwine
Date: 2005-10-17 18:14
Hello,
I hope to be of some help, if possible.
It sounds as if you have several issues that are "dampening" your sound at the same time. It will be impossible to diagnose them, until you can isolate what problems are being created by what part of your set up. It could be that a simple change in barrel will solve your problems (after you get your pads sorted out by a competent repairperson). I would suggest the www.clarinetconcepts.com barrels by Dr. Allen Segal--extremely nice. I think the best assessment will be by a very good teacher working very closely with you.
As for Paul's questions about mouthpieces, I would suggest that you sort out other variables and problems before tackling the mouthpiece. I agree with his statements and could go into great detail regarding numbers, but I'm not sure this will help anyone in regards to this post. Ken Shaw is right about other factors of a mouthpiece besides just tip opening and lay length contributing to sound. I don't agree, however, that the baffle is the most important ingredient in mouthpiece work. That will depend upon what you are trying to isolate to fix in a mouthpiece.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but this sounds like a post of someone trying to fix problems with equipment, where the main problem may lay elsewhere.
Obviously, get your instrument mechanically sound, then try different products if you wish, but work with your teacher to try to solve them with other studies, like the swab trick to work through your issues.
If you have specific questions, please e-mail me directly and I'll be glad to try to help, but this is quite an open topic that has been very hard for me to try to respond to (as you can tell by my response).
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-11-19 23:57
OK, well I've got what I want finally.
I ended up taking the clarinet to this guy Alex Kalpachi in New York who seriously fixed up my clarinet. He repadded it with cork pads and the buzzing is gone. The instrument is mechanically amazing, feels like butter, and he fixed me up with this stuff you spray in the clarinet that keeps the wood in good condition. In addition, he sold me this amazing mouthpiece, a "Charles Bay" mouthpiece, model H2. It's quite an incredible mouthpiece and really really opened up the sound. The tone and timbre of my sound is now about 15 trillion times better than it was before, I absolutely love the results of this guy's work (and his working with me for an hour and a half today!). Of course, this all came at a price, a whopping $900! That's gotta hurt, but trust me, you wouldn't think I was nuts if you heard the difference. I didn't end up visiting Guy Chadash, but I plan to in the future. For now, that spray stuff has done a good job conditioning the barrel as it was quite visibly dry - it sounds better than before and the altissimo responds fine.
Anyone have any experience with these Bay products? I also got the Bay ligature to go with it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-11-20 00:12
A Bay mouthpiece, ligature and clarinet overhaul for $900?
Don't tell the Brannens.
Thanks - but I'll pass.
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2005-11-20 01:08
I have used the Bay H2 MCM mouthpiece, and liked it an awful lot, great projection, great articulation and nice tone. I have not tried the ligature, looks alot like the bonade inverted, which I do use, although I have heard the bay lig is better. Normally I use a Grabner CZX-AW Pers mouthpiece, much darker and richer sounding than anything else I have tried, although projection could a little better. $900 does seem real steep for that, but I guess as long as it works.
Current setup
Selmer 10G
Mpc. Grabner AW-Pers/Selmer C95
Lig. Vandoren Klassik/Bonade Inv
Reeds. VD RP 56 #3.5+/Oliveri #3.5
Currently looking for a Signature, but this works like a dream.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-11-20 02:09
So you guys think it's too steep? The overhaul was $650, the mouthpiece and lig were another $250 by the way. I don't know why the overhaul cost so much, but the fact is that Buffet owes us money towards this repair. They have already promised to pay $50, but seeing as how the repair ended up being just a terrible expense, I'm hoping they'll donate more on the order of $100. Still expensive. But his work is the best I've ever seen. This guy's work makes even Wayne Tarnowski's look bad, and Wayne's supposedly the best in NJ. I had him replace one skin pad he installed with a cork while I was there and it took him about 20 minutes, so I guess there's why it costs a lot to overhaul. Or maybe he's just jerking my chain. At any rate...
The Bay is a lot better than the Bonade, trust me. I use a Bonade inverted in Marching Band and the Bay is of much better construction. The Bonade's two rails that support the reed are not aligned well on mine and the ligature as a whole really just kind of sucks up the vibrations. Not to mention with the Bay's large screws are a lot easier to adjust. Whether the Bay is worth the $50 we spent on it or not, I have no idea, but the fact is that it definitely sounded better than my $20 Rover Light, so we took it. The Bay doesn't have the rails the Bonade has, it just supports the reed directly, so you can basically just anchor the bottom and then adjust the top to suit your desired sound. It works pretty well, and what the heck, it looks fancy. He told me it's white gold, if that makes a difference (it definitely shouldn't). Whatever. It sounds good, so I took it.
Oh, and I also got this cool stuff from him, like this Woodwind-All Pad & Bore Formula that really hydrates and seals up the bore nicely. And I got this Hetman cork lubricant that works way way better than normal cork grease.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bnewbs
Date: 2005-11-20 02:50
I have never had more than about $300 worth of work done (including having cork pads put on the upper joint) on any clarinet I have owned, but I keep my instruments in good order and have them looked over anually. I have never heard of an overhaul going for much more than $500, unless the horn was in pretty bad shape, ehich it doesnt sound like yours was. I think my last repad-oil-adjust (inluding new corkpads on the upper joint of my 10G) was about $200
The plating on bay ligs is usually Rhodium (for whatever reason) from what I have heard. My bonade works well for large ensemble stuff (the rails are pretty symmetrical on mine). However I usaully use a VD Klassik ligature, which is a woven string ligature. It's similar to Pyne's lig's, but with ajustable tightness. It's absolutely wonderfull, I think I paid $40 for it, which I don't regret. It beats the living hell out of anything from BG or Rovner. If you like a really centered, rich sound it's ideal, the only drawback is projection (although it's not that far behind my bonade).
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-11-20 21:23
Good news, we're hopefully getting some serious reimbursement from Buffet, hopefully on the order of about half the repair cost of $600.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-11-30 01:13
I contacted Francois at Buffet today and cleared up a lot about my clarinet. I feel like I owe the guy an apology. Really, the reason they've neglected to help me with my clarinet up until now is just a result of a large amount of miscommunications. At any rate, the guy is really nice and very willing to help me out, so willing, in fact, that he is compensating for the entire overhaul! I was not expecting this level of generosity after I had put together such an accusational letter.
But basically, a word to the wise: if you're having trouble with your Buffet, contact Francois first. He said the tweaks Alex did to the tone holes voids the warranty and messing with the tone holes can mess up the intonation as well as other things on the clarinet. Fortunately, so far I have not had any problems and the tweaks seem only to have helped a lot, but he said it happens over time, so if in 3 months there are problems, I'll have to contact him first rather than Alex.
Oh, and the Bay mouthpiece is wonderful so far. It seems to like certain reeds a lot more than others and actually likes the blue box Vandorens just as much as the V12's. With my B45, reeds were always a gray area.
Ordered a Chadash barrel from WWBW. I think it'll fix that altissimo. I guess I'll see.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bassie
Date: 2005-11-30 13:05
MD1032 - my experience of 5RV and B45 sounds like the exact opposite of yours. Just goes to show we're all different, I guess - the world would be a boring place otherwise. I'm glad you've found what works for you.
Rhodium, by the way, is kind of like platinum but better ... if it's really rhodium plated you can expect it to stay shiny for a long, long time. :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: MD1032
Date: 2005-12-01 02:19
That's good, that's what it says on the box anyway. The lig is real nice, I must admit, and looks fancy too. Hopefully it'll stay shiny longer than my Bonade anyway. But I like the design better than the Bonade's by far. With this one, when I anchor the bottom, I can adjust the top and really affect the response and tone whereas on the Bonade it basically stays rock solid unless you do some bending around. It isn't as easy to use as the Rover, though. But hey, if it sounds good, it IS good.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
