 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bflatclarinetist
Date: 2005-10-08 16:32
Hi, I'm not sure how my uppper lip should be on the top of the mouthpiece. Currently I put my upper lip between my upper teeth and the top of the mouthpiece, but I just read that it's not the correct way. And I've done it this way ever since I started playing.
Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-10-08 16:50
If it works for you, then I wouldn't worry, but try everything and anything to see what suits you.
There are players that use the 'double embouchure' and produce a good tone, and if you ever choose to go onto double reed instruments (oboe or cor anglais), your top lip will be well accustomed so you shouldn't have too many pain issues.
I couldn't believe the amount of pain I had to endure when I started playing oboe again, but now I don't have too much trouble - but I tried the 'double embouchure' on clarinet and it was painful for me - but I do fit a cushion to stop my teeth gouging the beak as I've got composite front teeth after I smashed them on the road as a result of a cycling accident.
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Author: marcia
Date: 2005-10-08 16:53
It's not incorrect, just not the most common practise. If I understand your description correctly what you are doing is reffered to as "double lip" embouchure. Most of us put our top teeth directly on the mouthpiece with he lip also touchng the mouthpiece but firmly held against the teeth. Do you have a teacher? Might be a good idea to find one for a few lessons at least, and have the teacher check out your embouchure, and explain the pros and cons of both single and doule lip embouchure.
Marcia
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-10-08 17:16
If I've learned anything from contributing to this BBoard over the past few years, it is that there is NO certain way to play the clarinet. Different embouchures, styles of playing, vibrato versus no vibrato, musical interpretations, care tips for wooden clarinets, etc. Everyone uses what works best and sounds best for him/her. I suggest you try different stuff to see what you like best. In no way is double lip embouchure wrong. Many people (including pros) use it. My suggestion would be to find a good teacher in your area (if you don't already have one) who is capable of helping you out. And always ask questions. A famous chinese proverb says "He who asks a question, is a fool for 5 minutes. He who doesn't ask that question remains a fool forever"
Clayton
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-08 19:39
If it sounds good, and you're comfortable with it, I see nothing wrong with sticking too it. You can try the "single-lip" embouchure for kicks to see how you like it (I play single lip and have tried double lip on a whim every now and then, but I simply feel more comfortable with the former and don't notice a sound difference between the two). Like Claribone said, "there's no certain way to play the clarinet."
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-10-10 16:12
Many of the finest players use(d) double lip: Harold Wright, Richard Stoltzman, Gino Cioffi, Ralph McLane, Reginald Kell, Louis De Santis (Bonade's successor in Philadelphia and the player Robert Marcellus singled out as having the finest tone), Kalmen Opperman and most of his students, Keith Stein and most of his students.
At a master class, Anthony Gigliotti said that he wanted to use it, but couldn't stand the pain of conversion. (He used **extremely** hard reeds.) However, he got the advantages by strengthening his upper lip, so that it did most of the support of the mouthpiece. His upper teeth barely touched the mouthpiece.
See Keith Stein's description of the advantages of double lip in The Art of Clarinet Playing.
Others strongly prefer single lip. See the extensive, almost religious discussions here and on the Klarinet list.
If you're used to double lip and prefer it, by all means stay with it. I've played that way for many years.
Also, it's a big advantage when playing bass and contrabass. Single lip transmits too much vibration to your brain.
Ken Shaw
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-10-10 16:30
To be honest I was very surprised to hear the 'double lip' exists.
I'm not a pro, but discussed it with some pro's overhere, and to be honest they all agreed : it's not done here.
I still remember : first thing ever learned was to take a bite out of the mp, with the upper teeth on the mp.
But, I don't argue with all those famous names above ofcourse, and basically it's the sound that counts (we play music don't we)
I doubt however if you can find someone using double lip in this (ok, very small) country, but with some famous clarinet players.
Post Edited (2005-10-10 16:50)
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Author: chipper
Date: 2005-10-11 20:40
I was challenged the other day to invert my mouthpiece and play with the reed on top. The fellow called it "the Italian Method" Weird, but do-able.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-11 21:03
I've seen pictures of the "reed up" embouchure. I've also seen (unless I dreamed it YEARS ago) a commercial with a clarinet player playing reed up. I remember a post about it a few years back and someone (GBK?) stating how that it was an older method, and that it did hang on in Italy longest, even after the rest of the world pretty much had converted to having the reed down. That would be sufficient enough for it to get it's "italian method" nickname..........
And after some searching, try this post . . . (which contains links to OTHER posts)
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=168112&t=168044
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: bflatclarinetist
Date: 2005-10-12 02:48
Thank you for reading my post. I didn't realize I was double lipping. I always thought I was single lipping lol. I experimented with the single lip and find that I have a better projection. The only disadvantage I have with single lip now is that the mouthpiece moves a lot so when I have a fast passage, my clarinet will jiggle a bit. And I would think that's because my embouchure is weak?
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-10-12 03:01
You said something about your clarinet "jiggling" when playing fast passages. Does this happen on certain notes (perphaps ones where very few fingers are used?). If so try "snugging" the clarinet to your lips. I was told this by one of my instructors. Simply use your right hand thumb to push the mouthpiece into your lips to provide more support. This IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH BITING!! BITING = BAD!! Clayton
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-10-12 04:41
Also, if you don't have a mouthpiece patch on the top of it, it can get pretty slick and might have more of a tendency to slide with your teeth. If you throw a mouthpiece patch on there, your teeth will be able to sink into it a bit and it might slide less. A bonus (in my situation at least) is that it feels like more of a "solid" contact. Particularly when you have a chip in a tooth or when there's a small contact point. Without a mouthpiece patch, the beak will slide or move slightly as I play, with the patch, it stays put. (I also, as Claribone said above, try to push up against my upper teeth with my thumbs, to ensure it 'sticking' there.)
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-10-12 14:39
I think the reed-up ad was for a Benny Goodman album called "Swing Into Spring," which Texaco distributed free at their stations. The cover had a model in a Texaco uniform "playing" a clarinet held pointing straight out, or even a little higher, with the reed on top.
Many Italian players played with the reed on top, and some still do. Gino Cioffi, the wonderful principal player in the Boston Symphony in the late 1950s, said he preferred to play that way, but had to switch to get work.
There was an article in The Clarinet a couple of years ago on the topic, as well as one in the first series of the magazine in the 1950s.
Ken Shaw
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