 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2005-09-29 22:03
I am wondering if changing my mouthpiece will help me achieve a fuller sound?
my clarinet is somewhat resistent (selmer signature) and I have been using a Vandoren 5RV lyre for a long time. I have tried other mouthpieces in the past but I think I'm so used to what I have, that nothing else seems right. I am ready to try again "IF" changing will help with a fuller sound. Or, is there another way to achieve that?
I'm looking for advice on a fuller sound and advice on mouthpieces. do I need a more closed, or more open mouthpiece?
thanks, jan
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2005-09-29 22:28
yep. i use vandoren v12 #3. i spent a few years in a reed frenzy and spent a ton of money on different brands and testing different strenghts until i became a bit neurotic about it lol ....... i cant get myself back into that. this brand and size good. my sound isnt extremely thin...
scale of 1 -5 (5 being very thin) i think im at a 2/3
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-09-29 22:52
Reply do you do long tones where you hold your notes for eight beats or so trying to fill the clarinet with air and improve the tone? Have you tried any other exercises to improve your sound? Do you have an instructor that you can run some ideas past?
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2005-09-29 22:54
no, i havent tried that exercise. thank you, i will start doing that. i cannot afford an instructor at this time.
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2005-09-30 00:02
You should go to a music store in your area that lets you try out mouthpieces in the store, and if you find one that you feel works better for you than your current mpc, then I would buy it. Going to the store enables you to not have to buy anything until you like something, and know what you're buying.
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-09-30 02:52
Equipment which affects projection and fullness: reeds (bigtime), mpc, ligature to a small extent
Playing habits which affect projection: breath support, breath support, breath support, breath support, arched tongue (touching molars in back)
I couldn't possibly know which category your problems lie in, but all these things contribute to or take away from projection.
-Tyler
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-09-30 09:54
Sorry I was a bit blunt earlier - I had to run off quickly, but I play on a 5RV Lyre as well, I've gone onto V12 reeds, only 2.5 as I don't like reeds that are too hard - I got one of the 56 Rue Lepic cards with the free sample, there was absolutely no indication to what strength the reed is, turns out it's a 3.5 after unwrapping it!
Nice full sound, however, it was tiring to play on for any length of time and made the bottom register stuffy.
But certainly posture, embouchure and the shape of your oral cavity can have huge influences on the tone quality. Personally I like a broad and bright sound, but not shrill - I'm aiming for full, but with top end as it were, and I'm working on my sound as well to get more depth/fullness.
The A1 crystal (a replacement, not as good as my old one which I might try to track down) makes too thick and weighty a sound, alright on a B&H 1010 if you like that sort of thing! But I don't.
My 5RV Lyre gives the best results in my opinion on every instrument I try, I know I can rely on it.
I used to use a B46 as well, but dropped it with the barrel still attached on a concrete floor and shattered the entire tip, and took the side rails out as well - then collected all the broken bits and superglued it all back together, it worked well but not as good as it was before.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2005-09-30 14:52
Jan,
There are many different factors in what defines your sound. Fuller is a very loose word and unfortunately, there is no "sound dictionary" that I know of.
Let's look at two simple concepts and assumer they are unrelated, for simplicity. They are Amplitude (or volume or loudness) and Spectrum (or timbre or color). Also I will only talk about Vandoren mouthpieces as they are the ones I know best and reasonable in cost.
If you are trying to achieve a wider amplitude range, my experience is that more open mouthpiece are a little louder. Trying something like a B40 or B40 Lyre would help (they probably require slightly softer reeds)., I am not found of the B45 but you should try one if you can.
If you are trying to achieve a broader spectrum range, i.e. more harmonics in the sound, I am afraid you are starting a difficult quest. My personal preferences are in the M series. If you are used to the 5RV Lyre, I suggest you try the M30 which is probably close to the 5RV lyre in feel, but will have different colors. My personal favorite in fullness is the M13 Lyre, but it is quite a bit closer than your current setup.
Finally, the instrument you own, the Selmer Signature, is known to have a very nice sweet sound but more subdued than most other instruments. To me this instruments reflects somewhat the sound of Ricardo Morales, whereas the buffet/B40 approach is more an Alessandro Carnonare type of sound.
In the end, mouthpieces will make a difference in comfort but the concept of sound will come from you. You have to watch very carefully your embouchure, and it is impossible for anybody to help you without seeing what it is that you do. Working on long tones is good, but I always felt that working on playing legato intervals smoothly is most effective.
By playing octaves and think of filling out the space between the notes, your sound will improve by itself. There are no miracle solution but popular key words are "flat chin", "high tongue position", " bring corners of mouth forward", "move the air fast".
Good luck and remember, $65 is the price of a mouthpiece, it is also just about the price of an hour lesson with a good teacher. Unless you are advanced enough to know that you are not the source of the "thin sound" problem, I would rather spend my money on the lesson than on the mouthpiece.
Best,
-Sylvain
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2005-09-30 15:17
sylvain... thank you so much for your input. I would like to hear more from you.
let me give you a little more background...
I have played for what I consider a long time - 4th grade up to 2 years in college. then I put it up for 12 yrs and have been playing again for about 7.
I did not have any private lessons until a few months before starting college. Then, again when I decided to start playing again. A year after I started playing again, I joined our local wind symphony. I have been concert master for a semester, but enjoy playing 1st part SECOND chair much better.
At this time, I am unemployed and cannot afford lessons.
now ...back to trying to explain what i mean....
1. my sound (thin vs full) is okay until i get up to D,E,F,G above the staff. the reason I feel this, is becuz i hear others play these notes and it just sounds nicer (fuller) than when i play it. I am not talking loudness but i dont know how to explain it. i would describe my sound on these notes as "thin", "shrill" "edgy"...
2. i got to thinking that a past teacher was trying to get my embouchure in a more "AW" position rather than a "o"...i am using a profile 88 ..and just wondered if another mouthpiece would help with achieving this AW position.
I guess I just have to experiment...but wanted to ask you folks out there to see if anyone had ideas too.
thank you everyone for your input
jan
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-09-30 16:11
jan,
You should record yourself playing if you haven't already. Sometimes the sound you hear when playing is really nothing like the sound that others perceive when listening. You might be surprised at how your tone sounds when its not be heard through your head, bones, hair, etc. If you feel comfortable and have a good reed, there is a pretty strong chance you sound good too. It took me a lot of aggravation to learn that lesson.
Best
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-09-30 19:08
Janlynn,
Before you do anything, you might want to try taping yourself to see if what you "feel" when you play in the altissimo is what external listeners "hear."
If you still consider your tone thin, consider that the 5RV is one of Vandoren's least resistant mouthpieces. That means that it works best with a relatively stiff reed. If you go to the Vandoren website, you will see that the minimum (V12) reed strength they recommend for the 5RV is a 3.5. While the 3 may be easy to blow and comfortable in the chalumeau and clarion ranges, I suspect it simply isn't giving you enough support for the higher notes. (Do you find yourself "biting" hard when you move into the higher range? That could be another symptom of a reed/mouthpiece setup that doesn't have enough resistance.) Balancing your reeds may help but I suspect you will have to accept a bit more resistance in the lower ranges in exchange for a fuller altissimo.
You can achieve more resistance by using a harder reed with the mouthpiece you have (or one that is similar in design) or a more "open" mouthpiece (which will probably require some effort to find a suitable reed). If I were you, I think I would try V12 3.5's or regular Vandoren 3's before I went looking for another mouthpiece. I suspect that the resistance you feel in your clarinet makes you hesitant to accept more in your reed/mouthpiece setup. If that's so, I think it might also be wise to check your clarinet for leaks to see if that is what's causing at least some of your resistance there. (Search the board for "suck test" and "blow test" if you've never done them.) If there are leaks, fixing them might make it more comfortable to use a more resitant reed/mouthpiece setup.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-09-30 20:13
Janlynn, reading your last post, it doesn't sound like you need to change your mouthpiece. It just sounds like you need to practice those high notes more.
Also, it is almost impossible to judge your sound based on other people's sound as mentioned already because you hear it different when you play.
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