 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-03-26 22:59
I have been reading the old posts about alto clarinets; I think it is such an interesting looking instrument. I want to get my hands on one, but they are difficult to find. I called several places about rental and I couldn't find one.
Anyway, I saw in the old posts where it was compared to the alto-sax. I was wondering if the bass clarinet is comparable to the tenor sax. I've never seen anyone play the bass clarinet in a fashion that the tenor sax is used.
Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places or the comparison doesn't work. Can anyone enlighten me? Thanks. Michael
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2000-03-27 00:08
Check out Eric Dolphy. He was a jazz player in 50s and 60s and brillantly played bass clarinet (among other horns).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-27 01:21
In that the bass [some say it should be named tenor] clar. and the tenor sax are both Bb insts. , likewise alto clar. and sax are Eb's, they can play each other's music. However clar's are basically cylindrical in bore and their "register" is a 12 th [octave and a half] while the saxes are conical and therefore "octave" in character, it should be obvious that the useable "range" ["compass" in Great Britain] is much greater in the clarinet. There is much greater volume available from the sax than the clar., as well as tonal differences. In a recent [Bdy] Musical orch. our skillful bass cl'ist preferred to play the tenor parts on bass which sounded better to all! The alto clar, however, is usually low in volume, so it cannot "sound-out" sufficiently on alto sax parts. Does this answer your questions? Don
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Author: Doc
Date: 2000-03-27 03:12
Although you may see people doubling like this with the eb clarinet and the eflat alto and the Bb bass and Bb tenor. You should remember the "standard" doubles. You usully get put these up when doign a musical... Alto saxes are usually reeds I and II and most of the time have flute, and Bb sop clarinet with a splash or two of soprano sax. Tenor reed III is usually a Bb soprano clarinet that has a basic root note type of part, sometimes oboe and alto flute, reed IV gets the bari sax which usually has parts written for bass clarinet or depending on the music <cringe> bassoon. As I read through and saw the post of Eric Dolphy I just though yup, that's what bass clarinet is all about I don't do too much legit and when I hear a "legit" instrument wailing some jazz it is somthing to appriciate. I've recently heard a version of "C-jam blues" -ellington that had a really awesome violin solo and I was wondering who was playing? Was it one of his T-bones? Also very awesome clarinet solo! I'm trying to work it out now, cause that's how I learn the instrument better. I think sax and make it to clarinet when reading, but listening it's a whole new ball game. Sorry if any of you disrespect that and think that I'm disrespectful for that... But that's me. Later all
Dave
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Author: michael
Date: 2000-03-27 11:21
Don Berger wrote:
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In that the bass [some say it should be named tenor] clar. and the tenor sax are both Bb insts. , likewise alto clar. and sax are Eb's, they can play each other's music. However clar's are basically cylindrical in bore and their "register" is a 12 th [octave and a half] while the saxes are conical and therefore "octave" in character, it should be obvious that the useable "range" ["compass" in Great Britain] is much greater in the clarinet. There is much greater volume available from the sax than the clar., as well as tonal differences. In a recent [Bdy] Musical orch. our skillful bass cl'ist preferred to play the tenor parts on bass which sounded better to all! The alto clar, however, is usually low in volume, so it cannot "sound-out" sufficiently on alto sax parts. Does this answer your questions? Don
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Yes, that answers it Don. Thanks. I was wondering why the bass clarinet wasn't called a "tenor" clarinet like the tenor sax. (The tenor sax is a full octive lower than the soprano sax also, I believe.) The world of musical instruments is very interesting. I don't know much of the history because I took no music in college, but it seems like many names of instruments and the roles they play in bands and orchestras grew out of tradition.
Is the volume problem with alto clarinets (as compared to the alto sax) an inherent weakness of the instrument or can it be pushed harder to be louder? Micahel
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-27 15:24
I've had more experience on the soprano clarinets and bass [tenor, if you wish!], but playing alto in clar choir and comm. band, I found some mp/reed combinations [set-ups] like the VD B 44 with soft reeds would produce greater volume but with some sacrifice of tonality [farther from that beautiful Basset Horn character!]. Also having had a LeBlanc alto previously, now playing a Selmer, I believe the L had a slightly larger bore and therefore somewhat greater volume [not a head-to-head comparison, tho]. Having played a bit of alto sax recently, I found that my Selmer could be played softly and sweetly [for me] if "handled with care", which was a slight surprise! 'Nuff said! Don
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Author: Cara
Date: 2000-03-27 16:02
Wendell Harrison and mamas licking stick clarinet ensemble(including 2 double contra bass clarinets)have just issued a
cd called Rush& Hustle,in an attempt to address the imbalance of the clarinet role in jazz groups.Give it a listen its good!
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2000-03-27 16:49
Doc --
re your question as to violin & clarinet players on Ellington C-Jam Blues:
The violin is almost certainly Ray Nance (trumpet). the clarinet is probably Jimmy Hamilton. If the clarinet sound is sweet and rich and more of a "classical" than "jazz" sound, it is definitely Jimmy Hamilton.
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Author: J.Butler
Date: 2000-03-27 17:56
Don't forget that Johnny Hodges was a fantastic doubler on clarinet and Duke would use him sometimes also. Used a LeBlanc (clarinet) I believe and a Buescher 400 alto.
J. Butler
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Author: mike
Date: 2000-03-27 19:34
Don Berger wrote:
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[deleted]... In a recent [Bdy] Musical orch. our skillful bass cl'ist preferred to play the tenor parts on bass which sounded better to all! The alto clar, however, is usually low in volume, so it cannot "sound-out" sufficiently on alto sax parts. Does this answer your questions? Don
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I don't really wish to start up a big debate, but tenor sax does not sound like bass clarinet. I suppose the composer knew this, especially as saxes are not part of the core orchestral instrumentation. I would think that if the composer went to the effort of calling for a sax, then the orchestra might want to honor that particular tonality.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-27 20:20
Of course you are correct, Mike, please note I said "preferred" [his choice]. Its been a while, but I believe it was not a "sax quartet" but low arpeggios [sp?] involved. I doubt anyone knew the diff. As I recall I was trying to keep the bari sax under control!! Don
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Author: Mario
Date: 2000-03-27 20:27
Maybe. But what the Composer's intent was should just be the starting point for the exploration of the music (otherwise, there will be no room for creativity and the expension of musical horizons).
I would certainly welcome experiments where alto and tenor saxes would be replaced in a band by their clarinet equivalents. The lack of volume is not an issue since most public performance amplify all sections and have them mixed in real-time by skilled sound engineers (look at the back of the room, that's where section balance is now created).
In the CD "blues for Sabine" with Eddie Daniel, Sabine Meyer and the Trio de Clarone, there are several pieces where leading jazz instrumentation is used for tight section work between 4 clarinets. "Blue for Sabine" is highly amplified and the clarinets therein sometimes have an edge almost sax-ish. Try this CD fairly loud to see what I mean.
There is quite a few clarinet jazz(wo)men playing with combos (so soloist almost all the time). Hopefully, there are other CDs out there with interesting clarinet jazz ensemble playing modern arrangements. Any idea?
As for replacing classical clarinet work with other instruments, again experiments here is the key. A good instance: New York Counterpoint (10 clarinets on tape + a live one). It sounds very good with a saxophone ensemble. I have also hear Vermont Counterpoint (a dozen of so flute on tape plus a live one) played by a saxophone section. It works. So, judgement and taste must define what is acceptable or not, but experimentation is the process whereby interesting re-orchestration would be found. So, how about replacing all clarinets in the local student orchestra by saxophones just to see what comes out (I know, clarinets go deeper than sax, etc...)?
PS: I have heard S. Reich's New York Counterpoint recorded many times. Stoltzman has my vote at the moment. BUT, the real challenge would be to play this piece in real-time with 11 live clarinets. Has anybody tried this? That would be something interesting to play in Oklahoma City next Summer.
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