 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-09-23 17:27
Hi,
I was curious if anyone here is involved in one of the U.S. Army Band presently and wouldnt mind sharing their experiences, what its like, etc. Im looking for some more information and first person experiences.
(I searched the site, but most of the threads were older. Im looking for more up to date information).
Thanks.
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-23 17:58
Hello,
I was in the Army band for 4 years and now am in the Naval Academy Band. I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have, if I can. Feel free to contact me off-line.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2005-09-23 18:31
Hello,
I am currently a member of the 1st Infantry Division Band and will be happy to answer any questions you have. Please contact me offline with any questions. crnichols22@juno.com
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-23 23:12
Can you guys post your responses here? I too was (and still am) looing into joining an army band. Not right now (as I don't thin my playing ability is up to par yet), but it's a choice for the future should my current job not pan out, or if I don't thin I'll be happy maing a career of my current job.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-24 00:25
I'm the Army Band Liaison for recruiting in the northeastern US. Basically this means that I go out and audition interested parties in this area of the country. I have counterparts in all the other regions of the US as well. Please contact me at:
heather.vanbeek@usarec.army.mil
I'd be more than happy to answer any questions regarding the job itself, audition requirements, incentives and benefits (bonus $) for musicians in the Army etc. If you're in an area of the US other than the northeast and want to audition, I can put you in contact with the appropriate Band Liaison for you area as well.
Post Edited (2005-09-24 01:27)
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-09-24 00:48
Alexi wrote: (as I don't thin my playing ability is up to par yet)
--Alexi, I spent 24 years in the U.S Air Force Band program so blue blood runs through my veins. Just reading the tea leaves, but solely based on your BBoard posts (and exchanges we've shared the past 4-5 years) I'd lay down a c-note you're not only a fine enough classical clarinetist to pass an Army, Navy or Marine "Field" Band audition but land a higher level gig in an Air Force "Regional" Band. I thought I recall you writing you attended DePaul. v/r Ken
Post Edited (2005-09-24 00:50)
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-24 01:06
Be aware that unless times have changed, the Army will give you a secondary Military Occupational Specialty of Light Weapons Infantry. I second the Air Force suggestion. Having spent some time in both services, I can assure you that general conditions are far superior in the USAF.
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Author: Gandalfe
Date: 2005-09-24 01:08
Getting a gig in a military band can be a good start to a great career in music. Check out these links:
Army
http://www.army.mil/armyband/
Navy
http://www.navyband.navy.mil/
Marines
http://www.marineband.usmc.mil/
Coast Guard
http://www.uscg.mil/band/
I've heard you gotta know your scales down pat to even consider trying out.
Jim and Suzy
Pacifica Big Band
Seattle, Washington
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-24 01:10
You WILL NOT be given an additional Military Occupational Specialty of Light Weapons Infantry or anything else, for that matter. Times have indeed changed.
I have only 1 MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) - Clarinet Player.
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-09-24 01:25
Heather,
I tried emailing you, but the email address did not work.
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-24 01:28
That's because I'm losing my mind and forgot one of the "."s
It's now been edited to read: heather.vanbeek@usarec.army.mil
Post Edited (2005-09-24 01:30)
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-24 01:39
Whatever a recruiter may tell you, the needs of the Service will determine your assignment. But I must admit I never met an infantryman named Heather.
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-09-24 01:39
Aww, thank you! I just emailed you again.
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-24 01:53
as to the 'needs of the Service will determine your assignment'
If you want to join as a musician and you pass the audition, that's what you sign up for on your contract. They don't just pick a job for you and say 'that's what you get'.
Current band vacancies will certainly determine the location of your band, but you will get to chose a location based on a list of current vacancies in the 'regular' Army Band program.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-24 02:36
Hello,
My job in the Navy is excellent, but I do believe that the Army has the best educational benefits of any of the services.
Advice from Ms. Van Beek is probably your best bet. If I remember correctly from my Army days, she is a musician in a band who just took a temporary assignment being a recruiter, so she knows the ins and outs of the Army band system and knows what questions to ask that will relate to musicians.
Do consider the other branches of service, however. Choose the best fit for you.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-24 02:50
Thanks Mr. Redwine! Luckily for me, I'm not a recruiter at all - I audition the musicians that come to them interested in joining the Army and provide accurate information about the program to the recruiters and interested musicians. I'm heading back to my 'real job' in a band in a few short months!
The Army does offer excellent educational benefits and incentives. If anyone wants specific details, email me at the above mentioned address or check out the following websites:
http://band.goarmy.com
http://bands.army.mil
As Mr. Redwine mentioned above, choose the service that best fits you and your needs. Military bands from any of the branches are an excellent way to earn a living!
Post Edited (2005-09-24 02:57)
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-09-24 03:21
From a musical standpoint, I think it's relevant to mention a couple points ... a person should seek multiple opinions and sources before making the big decision of joining a branch of the military. I've been retired 3 years; my information may be outdated, particularly given the current U.S military global footprint and recent Gulf hurricane disasters. However, if times HAVEN'T changed the Ft. Meade Band (or Army Field Band) is designated as a "premiere" band (same as Pershing's Own and West Point Bands.) That means they are not required to maintain a secondary MOS or (War) skill ... "premiere" bands can indeed TDY (Temporary duty) to a War Zone but with a pre-defined mission, number of days and in a musical supporting role such as military protocol, base social functions, parades, funerals, reveille-taps etc. They are in and out like a Bob Hope-style Road Show.
However, the dozens of grunt, Regular Army Field bands (i.e., Ft. Monroe Continental Army Band) ARE required to fulfill dual roles as riflemen and foot soldiers. They train, qualify and maintain a literal "mobility status" as a function of their daily schedules; concert band rehearsal, PT, MOPP gear, range qualifying, Gas house, etc. These bands that deploy and serve in hot zones play their horns but also support their assigned post(s) performing collateral duties and details such as guard or perimeter duty, etc.
Bottom line, if you're NOT assigned to a "premiere" band in the active duty U.S. Military band program, you're on the hook and even then, if you have a unit Commander who wants to play General Patton and wield the political clout you'll be packing your BAM and bending over to take that typhoid or anthrax shot. I served under one of those dangerous clowns when stationed in Germany; while on a quintet trip to Bosnia me and the oboe player were being driven from the airport and had two sniper's AK47 bullets rip through the middle of the back seat of the jeep right between us. What's that saying from Bill Cosby? "First you say it, then you do it!" v/r Ken
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-24 03:34
Only some of the 'regular' Army Bands actually deploy. In a deployed status our mission is 90+% musical. As of late, many of our rock bands have been providing morale concerts for soldiers there. As with anyone in the Army (regardless of MOS), we will occasionally be required to perform guard duty. But we will never actually participate in combat. Yes, we do yearly qualification on our M16's and do yearly training on common task skills (such as gas chamber) but so does everyone else in every other job. It doesn't necessarily mean that we/they use it.
I'm speaking from experience as a 'regular' Army Bandsperson. My signature does say I work at Ft. Meade but I'm not a member of the US Army Field Band.
Post Edited (2005-09-24 03:43)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-24 12:42
Hello,
I do believe things have changed from Ken's time. When I was in the Army (the band in Atlanta--much like the band at Fort Monroe) we took about one-half day each year to train on chemical suits, etc. We were not required to qualify on a rifle, unless we wanted to. Besides that half day per year, all we did was play music. Of course, that was pre 9/11.
My Navy job now is a premiere band as Ken mentioned, so it is different than the "fleet" (Navy) or "field" (Army) bands. The premiere bands are more geared toward music than the fleet or field bands. So, I cannot speak for the fleet or field bands now as I have been removed from them for six or so years. However, after 9/11, even we pitched in with security at the Academy. For about a year, we sent someone from the band for 3 months at a time to guard one of the entrances to the Academy. After that, life returned to normal. So, if you are in a military band, there may be a time when you are called upon to something besides play your instrument. In my case, those times are very few and very far between.
I wouldn't worry too much about being put in a dangerous situation in a military band. I do believe that that type of training is usually conducted by people in other jobs and so they will be called upon more so than a musician. I would worry more about practicing so you can win an audition in a premiere band!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-24 14:07
"Contract" sounds reassuring. But don't place too much faith in it. Just ask the Army personnel who have had their enlistments involuntarily extended. There's nothing wrong with that. When you join the military your mission is to help protect the country in the way the military thinks you can be most effectively used. My point is that you should be aware, before joining, that the needs of your country and your service will be more important than your desires. Unless you have a true desire to serve the US, don't join.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-09-24 14:24
Kel wrote:
> "Contract" sounds reassuring. But don't place too much faith
> in it. Just ask the Army personnel who have had their
> enlistments involuntarily extended.
That's part of the "contract" most ignore reading ... but it is documented, and not in fine print.
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Author: Brianj
Date: 2005-09-24 17:35
I have kept out of this thread until now, but all of you are making me extremely ANGRY!!!! I have served in the Army as a clarinet player and now as a recruiter for 16 years . I can tell you for a fact that I will document, with every piece of paper I own on myself, and for every person I have put in the Army, that I and those I have put in the Army know exactly what they were getting into and got everything that was put in their contract. I really resent everyone here who implies or comes right out and says that I as an Army person and as a Recruiter am a liar. I am not and take great offense to it. I don't care if you were in one of the services 30 years ago and hated it; that does not give you the right to tell folks to stay out of the services because you had a bad experience. I do appreciate your service to our country, but you do us a disservice now by trying to get people to stay away. If someone really wants to serve in the Army bands right now, they can email me and I will tell them the straight truth. Yes you will probably get deployed overseas, and your tour there might get extended. If you can't accept that, don't join. But if you want to play music all day, get paid very well for it and get to live in places like Germany and Japan, get a free college education, and free medical care, then yes join the Army because we will treat you better than most school districts, who want you to teach kids music and don't give you any money to do it. Want to be a player in any group and make any money, good luck because it is very, very difficult. My rant is done, but I really REALLY resent being called a liar. I bust my tail up to 14 hours a day trying to put people in the Army and get frustrated listening to people who have no idea what they are talking about giving an opinion that means nothing.
SSG Brian Jungen
US Army Clarinet Player and US Army Recruiter
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-09-24 18:00
Brianj wrote:
> I really resent everyone here who implies or
> comes right out and says that I as an Army person and as a
> Recruiter am a liar.
I don't believe ANYONE has said or implied that in this thread; in fact, almost all of the posters have been from the military service and have expressed nothing except the truth here.
I think you're oversensitive to current events; it most definitely true that reservists don't expect to get sent overseas to a "hot zone", or enlistees to get their service extended, but it's a fact of life they do and that they were informed of the facts when they enlisted.
Most just conveniently forget everything they signed ... or didn't read it when they did.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-24 20:08
Some players like it a lot and are glad that they are part of it. Others can't stand it and leave as soon as they can - one guy I know ended up leaving the presidential marine band (he was a soloist with it) and went into Real Estate Sales. I taught with the former Principal Oboist of the Presidents Navy Band and got an earfull about how it was (he had recently retired from it).
They are a very good employer for the many players who aren't quite yet Orchestral Material (or certainly are but the positions didn't sync up for them to make it).
The top groups are fiercely competitive, the base bands aren't like that but still they demand a high level of playing. I wouldn't think that you would ever get players who "can't play" in any of them even the most basic one.
Remember though that in many of them "you are a soldier first".
The military benefits can't be beat.
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Author: Brianj
Date: 2005-09-24 20:20
Sorry for my earlier outburst, but "you will be a secondary riflemen, in spite of what they tell you" or " a contract looks good but.." means only one thing to me, that is that you won't be told the entire truth. As far as folks getting extended, people do seem to forget we are at war. Sept. 11, 2001 changed a lot of things. I am sorry about my other post, but being a real recruiter for the Army and having had people curse at me and threaten me, you do get a little sensitive to things like " a contract looks good but..."
SSG Brian Jungen
US Army Clarinet Player and Recruiter
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-24 20:38
"means only
one thing to me, that is that you won't be told the entire truth. "
But remember, the army got smacked for recruiters lying to potential dups.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-09-24 20:55
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> But remember, the army got smacked for recruiters lying to
> potential dups.
Let's not continue in this vein ... potential recruits to the services need to read the paperwork before signing, that's all.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-09-24 20:57
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> They are a very good employer for the many players who aren't
> quite yet Orchestral Material (or certainly are but the
> positions didn't sync up for them to make it).
OK, so they are up to orchestral positions or they aren't.
That tells me an awful lot ...
Personally knowing a few of the musicians in the top service bands - they could make the cut at most orchestral openings.
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Author: mags
Date: 2005-09-24 21:57
Hello there, I was in the Army for nearly 12 years. I like all military bands....I wasn't a musician in the Army. If I was having my time over again I would join the Royal Marines Band which is known to be..or some would say the best military band. My teacher is a Royal Marine. They now take females in the band.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-09-25 00:15
Residing as I do in the Washington, DC area, I know, have as friends and as students and former students many members of all of the "premier" service bands. I absolutely agree with Mark Charette that a great many of them are absolutely of major symphony calibre. The number of ex-service band members that hold major symphony positions is significant, and almost any "casual" gig I play in Washington is certain to include current and former band members. Incedentally the president of the AF of M, Tom Lee, retired as a keyboard player with the Marine Band.
I served in the US Army Field Band back in the 1950's. Among my former USAFB colleagues some went on to play in the Boston, Chicago, Cincinnati, Cleveland, National, Philadelphia etc etc orchestras (also in Hollywood studio orchestras).
This said, a career as a military bandsman is not for everybody! I remember being frustrated by the grinding mediocrity of the bandleaders I "soldiered" under, some of the inclement weather during parades and ceremonials, and the "kissing up" that seemed to be the key to advancement in the military.
One has to be careful using the term "field band". There is one (1) US Army Field Band, which is one of the of the 5 (or 6 if you include the Naval Academy) "special" bands in the Washington area. There are other smaller bands out there in the "field", but the official designation is other than "field band".
Larry Bocaner
National Symphony Orchestra (retired)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-25 00:45
Completely different era.
Most everybody was in the military back then (50's) so it had a different range of talent.
I know many, many players who gave up their orchestral aspirations and ended up in a service band.
Some of them are soloists with the big 4 DC bands too.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-09-25 00:59
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Completely different era.
But the members of today stack up with the ones of yesterday, no question.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-09-25 01:25
If you were at ClarinetFest last year at the University of Maryland and heard the U.S. Army Orchestra which "backed up" Ricardo Morales (among others) as well as performing a few works on their own, you'd have no doubts about the extremely high caliber of these musicians. Personally, I was blown away -- especially as I remember a few decades ago when the service groups were often the refuge of adequate, but second-tier musicians. No more!
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-25 07:17
Hello,
When I was in the Army, we called bands other than premiere bands "field bands". So, what is the correct term for them?
When I play "casual" gigs (both jazz and classical) in the D.C. area, I find that the military musicians are the most professional looking, punctual, and the best musicians on the bandstand or concert stage.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-09-25 13:38
Whoa there, Ben! Although we haven't played any gigs together (I do think I met you at a clarinet choir rehearsal once) I think you are generalizing just a bit too broadly when you characterize the service band guys as "the best musicians on the bandstand or concert stage." A little chauvinism goes a long way--I work with PFC's (poor frigging civilians) who are also professional looking, punctual and superb musicians. I've also worked with service musicians (some few) who were unpunctual, unprofessional and musically underwhelming--as recently as this past July at Strathmore Hall--if you want specifics!
One can give credit, where credit is due, to one's friends without insulting other worthy and talented artists!
"All generalities are lies--including this one!"
Larry
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-25 13:54
These days we're calling the different types of Army Bands "Premiere Bands" and "Regular Bands".
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2005-09-25 17:03
DavidBlumberg wrote:
>I wouldn't think that you would ever get players who "can't play" in any of >them even the most basic one.
You might be surprised... I deal with major fundamental issues with players every day. Out of time, out of tune, wrong notes, and many, many other things... SSG VanBeek inserted some links that will take you to individual band websites. Some of them are good, and some of them are, well, see for yourself.
Christopher Nichols
1st Infantry Division Band
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-25 17:10
crnichols wrote:
> DavidBlumberg wrote:
> >I wouldn't think that you would ever get players who "can't
> play" in any of >them even the most basic one.
>
> You might be surprised... I deal with major fundamental issues
> with players every day. Out of time, out of tune, wrong notes,
> and many, many other things... SSG VanBeek inserted some links
> that will take you to individual band websites. Some of them
> are good, and some of them are, well, see for yourself.
Precisely the reason I know I'm not ready yet. I don't want to be "one of those guys". So I'm going to give my current job a couple years of "trial", all the while practicing and trying to raise my playing level. So that should I decide to join a military band, I won't be the weak link in the chain.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-09-26 00:40
dummer musiker wrote: ...what its like, etc. I'm looking for some more information and first person experiences.
(I searched the site, but most of the threads were older. I'm looking for more up to date information).
--A few additional core issues a Recruiter (or auditions noncommissioned officer) should cover with an applicant:
By sheer volume of bands and slots: Army, Navy and Marine Field/Fleet bands must fill 5 times the instrument vacancies as Air Force Regional bands. For a higher success rate and by necessity, Recruiters target more high school and college band programs then raw street recruits (even working musicians starving or leading a poultry existence "still work" and not caught early will balk as they're already building their own careers and reputations and/or established their circuit.)
The good news: since music in the military is a specialized skill it's common for recruiters to get office walk-ins. ALL Army, Navy and Marine Field/Fleet band enlistees must enroll and attend a "mandatory" Combined Service Music School located at Little Creek Amphibious Naval Base, Virginia. As I recall it runs between 6-12 months with graduates automatically promoted to the grade of E-4 (accelerated students may “test out” in 30 days or in rare cases, join the teaching staff to serve out their hitch.) Graduates ship to their permanent duty station (or assigned band) and serve out their time.
One other related issue: Members of all "Premiere" bands and Air Force "Field" bands are EXEMPT from this school and direct report to their bands upon graduation from boot camp (note: "civilians" hired into the “President’s Own” Marine Band do not attend Marine basic training; they attend a separate indoctrination course.) v/r Ken
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-26 00:50
As of 15 Jun 05, all band members enter the Army at the rank of E4 or Specialist. (The Premiere Band members are promoted to E6 or Staff Sergeant upon arrival at their band)
The Armed Forces School of Music is a 6 month long school. Some personnel may advance out (if they meet the requirements) after 12 weeks of training.
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Author: kal
Date: 2005-09-26 02:47
I seriously hope I am wrong, but...
It seems as if you are all saying that musicians who enlist in the Army and join an Army band ...play in the band. And that is all that they do in the Army.
Please, PLEASE tell me I misunderstand.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-26 03:20
Kal,
That's their primary duty, of course. But as any military position would go, in a time of war or depending on what's needed, a secondary duty might be necessary. For instance, when I was at a military college, my primary duty was that of a student. I got paid as a cadet to attend the school, and learning how the military works, and getting an education were my primary duties.
Then Sept. 11th hit. And all of a sudden I'm keeping watch in my squadron between the hours of 3 - 5 AM and checking IDs of unfamiliar visitors. We weren't allowed to leave or have visitors for a few months. Did I complain? No. I still attended classes and did my homework, but I understood that while I was in there as a cadet, I was still part of the armed forces, getting paid by Uncle Sam. And if he needed me to do a little 'extra', it's part of the job.
How often this happens as a field band member, I wouldn't know. But on occassions like Sept. 11th or anything similar (where they can use any 'body' that happens to be around), I wouldn't only expect to have something else thrown at you, but would willingly do it. Because whether or not you thought that was in the job description, it's simply doing your part to keep the others safe. Would you complainif they asked you to lay down your clarinet and go help bring the bodies of injured people from the rubble of an attack to a local clinic? Or if they told you that rehearsals were on hold for a while and you were assigned to help patrol a certain area to ensure the safety of your fellow serviceman? If the answer to those are "yes I would complain", then perhaps a military band isn't your calling. Because whether it's supposed to happen or not, I'm sure it COULD happen. And on a sidenote, if I were a fellow serviceman and found out that you didn't want to help protect me or help me in a time of need or were complaining about it, I'd be pretty ticked and wouldn't want you in there in the first place. (Which some friends and I made VERY clear to the grumblers and complainers in our squadron who wanted the 'easy way out' and would try to sacrifice US to save THEMSELVES!)
BTW, Not saying this about YOU personally, just in general to whoever might want to join
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2005-09-26 03:25)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-26 10:06
Hello LarryBocaner,
You certainly are caustic in your response. I invite you to revisit my post and see that I said:
"When I play "casual" gigs (both jazz and classical) in the D.C. area, I find that the military musicians are the most professional looking, punctual, and the best musicians on the bandstand or concert stage."
This is my experience. While I don't recall meeting you or playing with you, I do stand by my statement that IN MY EXPERIENCE, comparing military and former military to non-military musicians, the current and former military are better. Please don't misunderstand that I do work with many non-military musicians who are excellent too (this weekend, in fact, in Bethesda with a superb pianist and violinist), but if I didn't know anything about two people that I had to hire and one was military, one was not, I'd go with the military from the track record that I have observed.
I may generalize a lot, but I never lie, Mr. Bocaner, and I take offense at your response.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-26 10:53
Kal,
Our job is to play in the band. We also run our band by working in administrative jobs such as supply (ordering equipment, etc), music library and operations (coordinating gigs) just to name a few. Like everyone else in the Army we can and do get called upon to perform guard duty. But, yes... our job is to play in the band.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-09-26 12:20
Heather - a little off-topic, but I'm intrigued by your reference to rock bands.
Does the army recruit rock guitarists etc? Does it recruit entire rock bands? Are there any famous ones?
I must be careful how I phrase this, Mark C being an electric bass player, but I think it's fair to say that the level of musicianship in rock bands is generally ..... well, not what most of us might aspire to. I wondered how the army selects its rock musicians.
Also, I can't help feeling that the generally anti-establishment stance of rock bands might not sit very easily with military life!
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-26 13:08
To Ben and Larry:
I would expect the military players to have a higher sense of professionalism as they are always representing the military (if still enlisted) so they have that higher standard to uphold. There are great and awful players everywhere. In the DC are there wouldn't be many if any at all poor players in the military as that is the hub of the "main" bands. And most of the players there are "imports" - they don't come locally, they come from all over the country as they won an audition to get there.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-09-26 13:28
Not my intention to engage in a [urinating] contest here. The quote about "all generalities--lies" is from my college philosophy professor, not intended to accuse anyone of "lying"; that should have been obvious to anyone with a sense of humor, in as much as I was also generalizing in a self deprecating manner!
Many years ago, when I was doing some contracting, I hired military and civilian players alike, based on their perceived ability (and availability) without regard to their civil status. The brass sextet I hired a couple of years ago for my son's wedding was an equal mix of civilians and players from the Marine and Navy bands. And they played beautifully together!
Larry
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-26 14:30
David Peacham,
We hire guitar players based on general playing ability, not just for rock style or classical etc. They have to pass an audition consisting of prepared selections from swing, pop/rock, ballad and latin; scales and arpeggios and sight reading consisting of reading changes in different styles and actual written melodies. That one guitar player would possibly be playing in several different ensembles (big band jazz, jazz combo, latin band, rock band) so we need them to be able to do a little bit of everything.
In fact, all the rhythm section instruments have similar audition requirements.
Every Army Band has a marching band, concert band, dixieland band, stage band (big band jazz), WWQ, BQ, jazz combo, rock band and, possibly, various other chamber music groups, country band and latin band. So a 'regular' Army Band musician is not hired to play in any one particular group, but several.
The premiere bands, on the other hand, do hire people for specific ensembles.
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-09-26 15:07
...and I personally found working in these additional duties a [big picture] goldmine of opportunity for free training and experience building post-service marketable skills; they made great resume stuffers for winning private sector and U.S. government agency Civil/Foreign Service jobs.
Many coworkers considered these jobs a nuisance or unjust and fought the system. While true most are non-musically related (here's your fine print not in the enlistment contract) they're essential for operating and sustaining a typical military squadron (i.e., Supply, Resource Advisor, Operations, Publicity, Administration, Library, IT, specialized uniform issue/cleaning, etc.)
Ironically now, more then half of my former colleagues including myself (retired and separated) have landed "day jobs" from a former additional duty and blissfully gig part-time nights and weekends.
Another unique factor and advantage when applying for a U.S. Armed Forces military band is the "age waiver." Writing exclusively of 2004 Air Force Recruiting Service enlistment qualifications; other than band and medical career fields the cut-off age is 28 y/o however, I saw waivers approved as old as 42 y/o (prior service PhD University Percussion Professor.) Age and prior service restrictions fluctuate, however, band (and medical) specialties are consistently (even throughout the 90s streamline personnel cuts and SSB/VSI buy outs) manned as shortage career fields. v/r Ken
Post Edited (2005-09-26 15:09)
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-26 15:26
A cartoon in an Air Force base newspaper:
Sergeant, as he hands a broom to an Airman 1st: "Think of it as enhancing your experience in a field unrelated to your AFSC."
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Author: clarinetdaddy
Date: 2005-09-26 15:41
Okay! I spent a total of 15 months In Baghdad with the 1AD Band. Our main mission was playing music for the troops. However, we , at times had to pull DMAIN security and what I called traffic control into the mess hall. My time over there was not as bad as you might have heard. You have many hours of free time ( yes , down time ). You can spend many hours on your instrument, play in small groups. Of course this all depends on yourself. Yes, there are times when the ( Army training ) gets a very high priority due to the mission. You wouldn't want your friend next to you not knowing how to shoot or watch your back. Some of the other duties we had in Baghdad was, water detail, head count for the mess hall, DMAIN secuity, and other small details. But this was only a few days per month that we were there. I would say that our main mission was 95% music and 5% military. Where can you find a job that will pay you to "PRACTICE". I have spent the last 21 years in the Army Band field. (Which you will always be in). But as you ALL know that with 9-11 many things have changed. Even dor the non-military musician. You can always email with questions. I will try to answer all of them.
Miles
clarinetdaddy
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing".
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-26 15:50
Regarding age waivers.....
I haven't seen any as of late.
For the Army, currently the max age for enlistment for active duty is 34. For Reserve/National Guard Bands - 39.
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-09-27 01:44
Thanks for all your responses. I met with a recruitor tonight and he didnt really know much about the bands at all. Im thankful for all your information.
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-09-27 15:47
Recruiters (from all services) do not put in very many musicians; band enlistments, audition and initial application processes are unique compared to the average recruit.
In this instance, writing as a former military band clarinetist to other interested clarinetists on a clarinet BBoard, I recommend contacting the nearest active duty military band "directly" (service branch of choice) and speak with a qualified auditions representative, (if Army, [hrvanbeek] from this thread has stepped forward to assist.) Auditions professionals are already in the system and primary line of communication. They can spell out all options and explain the enlistment process such as, music requirements, open instrumental slots, bands and location, and Form(s) to be signed and presented to the recruiter. Most importantly, they provide first-person answers on boot camp, Armed Forces Music School, and band's musical mission and daily schedule. If a musician is "premiere" band caliber they will refer as well as to Reserve and Guard bands.
Make "first contact" with a band; get the scoop then bring the recruiter into the picture. In this way, the most accurate information and communication is established at the source. Informed decisions on auditioning can be made and "committed to." More, 99.99% of recruiters are non-musicians. They haven't a measurable clue of a player's qualifications without guidance (and a degree or slick resume isn't an automatic pass.) If they don't know they would be phoning the nearest band to speak with the auditions representative or an experienced coworker.
F.Y.I. On Army Field Band auditions: it may be "mandatory" for the recruiter to accompany the person auditioning or provide an escort. When arriving at the installation and if a "closed post," someone with a valid I.D. will be requried to get through the gate.
Another route is acquiring the name of the noncommissioned officer in charge of the recruiting offices for the local area or region (the person with the most stripes and hash marks on their uniform.) Phone them and set-up an appointment (in the flesh is always best.) Ask to handle your enlistment personally or assign you a recruiter and oversee the entire process from MEPS thru ship day. v/r Ken
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-27 17:05
The best bet for the most up to date info about the Army Band program is a Band Liaison. We are here expressly for the purpose of providing that information to interested parties and recruiters as well as conducting auditions. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I am the Band Liaison for the northeastern US. If you live in an area other than that, I can direct you to the appropriate Band Liaison for your area.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-27 18:56
Hello Heather (or anyone else on this board that lives in the D.C. area, for that matter),
I'm playing a concert (Libby Larsen's Slang and Charles Ive's Largo) on October 1st in Kensington, MD. It would be a pleasure to meet you there, if you are free. If you are interested, contact me off-line and I'll give you address, time, etc.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2005-09-27 23:06
Forgive me for butting in on this conversation, but it is all well and good that musicians become members of the military. Morale-boosting music motivates people in uniform and out. I do think anyone who raises his or her right hand and takes an enlistment oath better be ready and willing to fulfill the requirements of said oath. That is the bottom line of the military for everyone--teacher, factory worker, doctor, Walmart checker, farmer, mother, father included--who takes the oath and puts on the uniform.
I myself, a teacher, took the oath to travel and see the world. I ended up practicing procedures for the end of the world. Go figure.
Do take that oath seriously.
Mary Jo,
USAF Retired
Weapon of Choice: old Edgeware from childhood
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-09-28 05:27
I was an inch away from being in the Army National Guard band in DC. I signed all the papers, went through MEPS, but was told to come back to MEPS after a month... which I never did. Oops.
My recruiter was up front with me, as well as the Chief in charge of the band. I asked every possible question as well. I am also in the DC as Heather. The Chief told me the same thing as Heather: Only the rock bands are being deployed, and luckily, the DC Nat. Guard doesn't have a rock band. :P
I have yet to decide if I want to continue going through the process. I kind of like my freedom atm. hehe. But I could use the benefits. Maybe I will eventually go back into it.
--CG
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2005-09-28 10:31
CG,
Were I in your shoes, I'd talk to as many military musicians as I could, in person, on base, before making that decision. Goodness knows, I didn't when I signed on the regular Air Force. On the other hand, my father, his brothers, my uncles, and my boyfriend seemed proud for their sacrifices in World Wars, Korea, and Vietnam.
For me, loss of personal freedom was only a big issue in Officer Training School, a diabolical school designed to make officers and gentlemen through psychological messing with young minds. I wasn't the worst marcher, however, will be forever ashamed I hid a pair of dirty socks in my "personal effects shoebox" in my closet. Do you know how many demerits that warrants?
All the best to everyone considering serving their country musically.
Mary Jo
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-28 11:23
Contragirl,
Just to clarify.... I didn't say that ONLY the rock bands deploy. I just mentioned that they were performing a lot there as of late. Sorry if I was confusing. The rock band is only one element of every Army Band. Not all Army Bands have the likelihood to deploy. One or more elements from a band may deploy. I hate using the word 'deploy'... For us (band) it means something a whole lot different than most everyone else in the military.
Post Edited (2005-09-28 12:05)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-28 19:17
Heather,
Perhaps a more worthy word would be that the band is "touring" rather than being "deployed"!!!
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-09-28 19:22
What to know before joining the Army as a musician. I was the Clarinet soloist and Principal Clarinetist of the US Army Field Band untill my retirement in 1999, at age 39! Prior to that I was in the 26th army band in NYC till 1981, when I returned home to Balto to join the Field Band. I am no longer "in" so I can tell you like it is!
Since I didn't didn't join a special band as my first assignment in the army, Indeed had to attend the Armed Forces School of Music. If you are audtioning for the Army music program and not a special band, you will also have to attend that. The recruting things I've read in this thread are true, you sighn an enlistment contract that specifies that you will be trained to be an army musician, and upon completion of your schooling you will be awarded the MOS, (military occupational Specialty) of 02J(clarinet player). Here is where you can run into trouble... when I attended the school there were people let into the school who really had no business being in a music school of any type anywhere. If you don't do well on your 3 auditions: incoming, mid course, and final, and fail to complete your training, you can be reasigned and retrained in an MOS that the army needs at the present. In this day and age that could mean stopping schrapnel from an improvised explosive device in Iraque. Maybe the audition procedure for regular army bands has gotten better, but I blame some over zealeous bandsmen and recruters for letting some people slide through some of those auditions.
Special Bands: The US Army Field Band. I loved the job! Out of all the specail gigs in the military you do less of the stupid stuff: parades, funerals, tatoos, and stuff that has "real" army people standing around at attention. But you pay for that with 120-150 days a year out on the road. Those for the most part were alot of fun. I was conguent with my personal mission of bringing "live" music to living people!
The great Navy band clarinetist Al Ashercion once said, " Military and music is like Oil and vinegar, you can shake it up but the minute you try and put it on the salad, it seperates" after 20 years of service I find that this was the truth. There were days that were just amazing, doing a rare parade through the small french towns of Normandy on the 45 aniversery of D day. And those days that sucked butt: any inaugural parade, unles it was your first and you voted for the dude.
From a musical standpoint, it was better than the avererage gig you would get called to do in the Balto-DC area, there were fine players that had at least had seen the music. Bottom line if I had it to do over again I would! If you have a chance to audition, take it! Last year in the Union paper, there were maybe 6 non military clarinet opening, 4 of them didn't pay what my retirement check is, non of them did if you count medical benifits.
Tom Puwalski, MSG retired, author of "The Clarinetists Guide to Klezmer", Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, quite frankly the best Klezmer band south of Brooklyn, oh and formerly with the US ARmy Field band
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Author: hrvanbeek
Date: 2005-09-28 21:28
Tom,
Thankfully, we've raised the regular band audition standards and cleaned up the audition process a bit since you attended the SOM.  Oh, and our MOS has been converted to 42R for all bandsmen (42S for special bands) and an ASI (additional skill identifier) for each instrument in the regular bands - 9J for clarinet. Things just keep on changing............
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-09-28 21:45
p.s. if anyone doubts Tom's credentials as a clarinetist, I've had the honor of sitting next to him on the bandstand a couple of times and he is an absolute MONSTER player --- if you're thinking of auditioning for a military band you have some high standards to meet!
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Author: Mary Jo
Date: 2005-09-28 22:21
Tom wrote: Special Bands: The US Army Field Band. I loved the job! Out of all the specail gigs in the military you do less of the stupid stuff: parades, funerals, tatoos, and stuff that has "real" army people standing around at attention.
Ironically, the "real" army people probably cherish their memories of your musical performance at that parade, funeral, or tatoo.
I myself remember "Taps" from a portable record player at my father's graveside services. The old World War II vet was honored by old retired friends in VFW caps doing the right thing for the boy who left high school to fight a war.
Maybe John Phillip Sousa recordings on a good sound system would work best for "the stupid stuff," as you put it.
Mary Jo
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-09-28 23:14
I dont understand why playing at a funeral is viewed as stupid.
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-29 11:30
Hello,
I think Tom said "stupid" but meant the less enjoyable stuff. It is no fun standing at attention at a funeral, or a parade but those are the things we do so that we can play a really good concert band concert on Friday nights. In my job, we are lucky that we do funerals only on occasion and they tend to be very high profile, so they are very interesting. Last month, we participated in the Admiral James Stockdale funeral. I slipped into the chapel during the service--what a great service. A few years ago, I was on the Admiral Zumwalt funeral. There were many famous people in attendance there, including President Clinton.
Every job will have something that you don't like about it. I do suppose that military music won't be for everyone, but it sure is the best for me. Now, I'm off to Navy concert band rehearsal!
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-09-29 13:44
For those of you who have not had the advantages of military service, ceremonies always involve long periods of remaining absolutely motionless--no movement at all, including twitching, scratching, etc.
During our Army basic training graduation review, the budding stand-up comic next to me started muttering without moving his lips. "'Bring your companies to attention.' 'Bring your companies to parade rest.' Why don't they give orders like 'Have your companies mill around and scratch their a**es'? We can do that. We're good at it."
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2005-09-29 15:10
I would like to apologize for using the word stupid without quotes around it. I meant it in a way I used to hear complaining from the DMA, PhD newbies that somehow thought they were to good to do that kind of thing.
The proudest moment In my military career occurred during the 45th D-day ceremonies. All the allied troupes had bands playing the big parade at ST.Maire Eglaise (spelling). We had programmed something like "Black horse troop" to play while all the rest of the bands were playing whatever their national march was, The Brits were doing Colonel Bogey, The Belgians were doing the Parachutist March, a bunch of us when to the band SGM and asked if we could do Stars and Stripes, a piece we never did on the march. He made the decision we went with the "stripes" and when we turned the corner and started play, I could not believe the reaction we received. The French went nuts for us, for Americans, for the memory of all those guys who were "resting" on the bluff above Utah beach. Well the band always did a huge ritard before the last time through the trio, and we did it in France. But we did it together and right on the down beat to the last time through the trio, everyone just stepped out full step and in tempo. At the reception that evening (receptions with other country bandsmen= good food and booze). People from the other bands couldn't believe you could successfully March a ritard.
The thought that my grandfather had marched through the same town playing trumpet, 45 years earlier made the moment even sweeter for me. That morning the trumpet player who was my best man at my wedding, walked out into the sea of crosses and played taps in front of how many millions of people I don't know and didn't clam. Tough thing for any trumpet player to do!!!
That was the cool thing about a special bands one day you're standing around The Mall freezing your butt off for 5 hrs on Inaugural day, the next week you're playing a concert, to a packed house, in Berlin in Philharmonic Hall. It's never the same old same old!
Tom Puwalski, MSG retired, author of "The Clarinetists Guide to Klezmer", Clarinetist with Lox&Vodka, quite frankly the best Klezmer band south of Brooklyn, oh and formerly with the US Army Field band
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-09-30 20:53
By far, my most personally rewarding and memorable performances wearing the blue suit was the "cuckoo's nest" circuit ... assisted living, nursing homes and VA hospitals. These vets and senior citizens (often, heartbreakingly lost and forgotten pillars of American society) were always the most responsive, musically knowledgeable and appreciative audiences in the world.
If I could turn back the clock, I would willingly trade all the famous, self-glorifying concert hall black tie affairs for a poor but warm wrinkled-face smile and hug. And, I still take my dog and pony one-man jazz revue into the local facilities to get my humanity fix. v/r Ken
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-09-30 21:46
So very wise Ken. Those are the playing experiences I am looking for.
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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