 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kman1000
Date: 2005-09-12 12:05
Two questions:
1. I love jazz music but I when I think of jazz only names like Kenny G and Louis Armstrong come to mind. I would like to find out if there are any modern day clarinetists that play smooth and exciting jazz. The only person I know of to date is Tim McLaughlin but that's it. Any other really good ones that are highly recommended?? (I'm looking for songs like "Moonlight" and "Northern Lights" by Kenny G -smooth jazz / As for exciting jazz - "Sweet Georgia Brown" by Tim McLaughlin)
2. I started a post a couple of months back trying to find out what is the hands down best book to obtain for a clarinetist who is looking for a very solid foundation to start playing again (jazz) as far as all the scales, arpeggios, etc. are concerned. Someone recommended:
"Complete Method For Clarinet" (Third Division) by C. Baermann
Well I haven't been able to find this book at any libraries at all. I can purchase this online but I would like to take a look at it before I make it my own. My question is - Is this the best book to get? Is there a better book out there?? If not, then I will go ahead and buy this book online. Thanks!! :-)
Tony
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-12 12:38
Hello,
The Baermann book is for developing your technique (essential for playing all music), not about learning jazz.
My best recommendation to learn jazz is to study the Aebersold methods. There are several that discuss (and you play along with a cd) elementary ideas of jazz, like scales, II/V/I turnarounds, etc.
After you have a handle on the basics, form your own group. Live playing is so much better than playing with a record.
SmartMusic also has several Aebersold albums built into the program. I'm using this program quite a bit lately and think it is great. It has a metronome, tuner and a lot of classical and jazz accompaniments to compositions.
Please let me know if I can be of any more help.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-09-12 12:47
I don't know about the specific songs you mentioned, but for a really smooth, mainstream jazz like you describe try Eddie Daniels, he's an amazing clarinetist. It's not in the level of American kitch like Kenny G (no one is really), but it is a little.
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Author: rockymountainbo
Date: 2005-09-12 12:53
This label has a ton of modern day clarinettists...
http://www.arborsrecords.com/
Pete Fountain is always great.
The older ones I really like:
Sidney Bechet
Artie Shaw
Benny Goodman
even Woody Allen is pretty smooth.
The list goes on...go to your local library. They probably have a ton.
Post Edited (2005-09-12 12:57)
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-09-12 13:46
It might be good to define a few terms and sort out the different issues you raise.
First, there is the matter of "smooth and exciting jazz." Based on your mention of Kenny G. and Louis Armstrong, it sounds like you may be contrasting, not only two different styles of music, but also ballads versus up tunes. Kenny G. plays a lot of mellow stuff. Louis played a variety of music, but it sounds like you refer to more swingin' stuff like West End Blues.
Secondly, "smooth jazz" is a term that refers to a certain genre of music. Many of us, myself including, aren't big fans of smooth jazz and, to be honest, have a bit of a prejudice against it. Good music is good music, in whatever genre. Anyway, there is a world of mainstream and contemporary jazz out there for you to explore, and the journey will be fun.
With the internet it's easy to preview most any kind of music you like. If you want to hear something that is smooth and mellow, but not "smooth jazz," I recommend listening to clips of Coleman Hawkins' rendition of Body and Soul on tenor sax.
Third, "jazz" itself is an elusive term, especially in terms of what it takes to be a jazz player. That's tricky for those of us love jazz but don't really consider ourselves to have attained the status of "jazz player." You don't want to oversell or undersell yourself when someone asks "Do you play jazz?"
Fourth, Baermann et al don't teach jazz, but they don't hurt, either. Jazz tends to be improvisational, and skillful improvisation requires understanding and facility with scales and chord structure. I read somewhere that tenor saxman John Coltrane studied in depth a standard comprehensive book of scales and arpeggios.
Fifth, there are some playalong books with CDs that can give you the feel of playing jazz. The Solo Jazz and Blues book is good, also the Hal Leonard Jazz and Blues playalong solos.
Sixth, here is a short list of CDs I recommend (some of which I don't own): Benny Rides Again, by Eddie Daniels; The Jazz Chamber Trio, by Paquito D'Rivera; A Fine Line, by Don Byron (which goes way beyond jazz); Beautiful Love, by Eddie Daniels; Swing Low, Sweet Clarinet, by Eddie Daniels; Grenadilla, by Ken Peplowski; anything and everything by Artie Shaw.
Bob Wilber is good on the traditional ("Dixeland") style. Also, the guys who play and have played clarinet for the Jim Cullem Jazz band for the Riverwalk Show in San Antonio.
Buddy Defranco is the name associated with bebop on clarinet.
That's the best of what I know, but it only scratches the surface of what is out there.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-09-12 15:44
Anything will work as far as teaching you scales and arpeggios.
What you need to do is develop your ear, and there no firm technical prerequisites for doing this. I advise you IMMEDIATELY start trying to play along with the melodies to your favorite pieces. It will be a challenging puzzle to work, and help make clear to you what techniques you need to study.
There is a wide range of books out there which will try hard to explain jazz to you, but most of the authors presume that you are already attempting to do some things on your own.
Most of the players that you will here were educated prior to the existence of such materials and they learned by imitation with lots of trial and error. Go on and start this along with (as opposed to after) dealing with Baermann and Aebersold.
If you have any of the Kenny G. Christmas albums, I have a chart of keys, starting/ending notes, etc. online at:
http://allencole.tripod.com/kennyg.htm
I use it to get my students playing along with recordings. Good luck.
Allen Cole
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Author: RodRubber
Date: 2005-09-12 16:59
Kman,
The recs found above are all very good, especially redwine"s suggestions to get some aebersold material and start working with that.
Learning the baerman bk 3 would be a good way to learn your scales, but i would play the excersizes in all the modes as well.
Nothing is more important in learning to play in a jazz style (or any style really) than transcribing. I would strongly recommend transcribing as much material as you can.
Re: Smooth Jazz - to me, smooth jazz is nothing but R+B with an instrumental solo. In "real" jazz, the clarinet (or whatever) is in a constant improvisation with the piano, bass, drums, etc. All of the musicians are Listening (hopefully) to one another, and from the stimuli, are improvising (simultaneously composing, and performing music). On the other hand, smooth jazz has a R+B style accomp. The music just repeats itself over and over, and therefore is missing one of the essential elements or "real" jazz music: The group improvisation of a jazz combo.
I would recommend staying away from Kenny G especially! Gorlick (Yeah - thats what the G Stands for) consistantly plays out of tune, and with considerable harmonic clams. The only thing to really be admired about Gorlick is his bank roll!
Lastly - I recommend you listen to some older guys like PeeWeeRussell, And of course the goodman, shaw stuff etc. Also check out: Don Byron, Victor Goines, Chris Speed. These guys are really playing actual jazz, and its worth it to go deep into the music!
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Author: MikeH
Date: 2005-09-12 17:25
Here is what I would add to the above: after you learn the important 12 or so scales in all keys start playing by ear in all keys different jazz tunes. It is agony at the beginning but it gets easier over time and is a great way to learn where the notes that you hear in your head are on the instrument. As I said it is really difficult when you start ( at least it was for me ) but over time it gets easier and easier although difficult tunes can take a week or so of a half hour a day to get down. The last tune I did this with is Parker's "Au Privave" and that took about a week ( I only can practice a total of 1 hour a day). It is amazing what this exercize can do for you. You can start out with a lick like Parker's "Cool Blues" and move on from there. Actually it occurs to me that you should pick tunes representative of the style that you want to play. Obviously I want to play in the bop style, with the emphasis on want. I do not know if I will ever get there but I doubt that I would be able to improvise at all if it were not for this pratice routine.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-09-12 17:29
"Don Byron, Victor Goines, Chris Speed. These guys are really playing actual jazz, and its worth it to go deep into the music!"
These three are pretty good and I would also recommend checking them out (especially Byron, who can be sometimes disapointing, but sometimes absolutely brilliant, like in Mahler in jazz).
Also VERY interesting are Michel Portal and Louis Sclavis which make very unique modern jazz usually in combination of European and African folklore.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2005-09-12 21:03
Addressing your specific request for "smooth jazz"-esque jazz clarinet: I'm going to agree with Markael, above: Beautiful Love, by Eddie Daniels, which sounds to me like it was produced with "smooth jazz" radio play in mind. You can run right out & buy that one this instant, and I don't think you'll be disappointed (a lot of the "smooth jazz" sensibility on the disc is provided by Chuck Loeb, a wonderful guitarist with terrific chops for that style).
Warning, the record does NOT contain any of the sort of mindless noodling and aimless riffing over a jazz-funk groove that a lot of "smooth jazz" suffers from. Daniels is a brilliant jazz player with lots of ideas (as is Loeb) and the album's a blast from start to finish.
I'd also recommend Daniels' "Nepenthe" and "Blackwood," both of which are in shouting distance of "smooth jazz," though not as resolutely so as "Beautiful Love" -- and beautifully played throughout.
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2005-09-12 22:38
In his very helpful reply to the original question, Ben Redwine neglected to mention his own recent CD [Baby Won't You Please Come Home] which is a brilliant combination of wonderful tonality and the right selection of well-chosen improvised phrases. Ben has three -- all quite different -- versions of Sweet Georgia Brown on his CD that combine amazing technique with three unique approaches to this oft-recorded tune. One of the versions uses the bottom notes of the clarinet in a dialogue with the bass that is exceptionally musical and truly inspired. Redwine's CD is a breakthrough recording that is highly original and extremely well-crafted and establishes him as a peer of such more-established players as Don Byron and Ken Peplowski and Eddie Daniels. It strikes me that if if you can "understand" why Ben chooses the notes and phrases and rhythms he uses on Sweet Georgia Brown, perhaps by trying to reproduce some of his phrases or produce alternatives through hundreds of repetitions using a training CD like the Aebersold disks, you can come a long way as he suggests. One thing I think I learned from Ben's CD that I had personally not paid enough attention to is that it is not only hitting all of the "right" improvised notes and chord changes, but it is hitting those notes with a beautiful tone that really defines first-rate jazz clarinet.
George
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Author: allencole
Date: 2005-09-13 07:18
We're getting pretty far ahead of ourselves here. Tony is new to the jazz genre and is just trying to get his foot in the door.
If he is expressing an interest in smooth jazz, I don't think that we're helping him by getting into how we think Kenny G.--or the whole smooth jazz genre--suck. Smooth jazz, including that by Kenny G., can be a godsend to young players. It is often pretty simple in terms of melody, frequently recorded in horn-friendly keys, and this makes it easy to imitate. And frankly, I think that we should SERIOUSLY celebrate the fact that some sort of instrumental music is actually popular. So let me say now that I totally agree that smooth jazz is actually just R&B--no, let's go one better--Smooth Jazz is really just instrumental pop music. Some simple pablum (but attractive pablum) that can lead a lot of young players to 'real' jazz.
Personally, I think that Benny Goodman is a prime source for the beginning improvisor. Benny machine-guns the listener with lick after lick that is simple, tasty and well-executed. He didn't always have the depth of feel of a Lester Young or the storytelling capability of a Barney Bigard, but he tended to do very well with the average listener, and that's something that we don't often point people towards when talking about jazz.
But before delving into all the scientific mumbo-jumbo of improvising, it's generally good to develop something of an ear. People who cannot piece together "Jingle Bells" unassisted are not likely to benefit much from Jamey Aebersold. Many younger players actually melt down when confronted with its purgatory of scale and mode types. It's best to get with a CD player and learn some songs, then some licks, and then some entire solos. That would greatly enhance understanding and appreciation for what Aebersold has to offer.
As for Baermann III, it is a perfectly good book, although I think you'd benefit more from learning how to formulate chords and practice doing so in different keys. But don't look for it in the library. Most music stores which service band and orchestra instruments will probably have it.
Allen Cole
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Author: kman1000
Date: 2005-09-13 09:32
Ok, Wow!! This is pretty in-depth but Thanks a lot!! You all really answered my questions well. Thanks!! I guess I should mention that while I really want to get to the point where I can play jazz, right now I'm just not able to. My foundation isn't strong enough. I have a fake book that I received as a gift and I can't understand it at all. It has so many references to scales in different keys and all that essential base knowledge that I don't have now. So as far as ESSENTIAL knowledge that I should be extremely comfortable with, I should go ahead and buy the Baermann book?? Is this the final verdit?? ( that this is the best book to buy) :-) Thanks again!!
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Author: ghuba
Date: 2005-09-13 10:19
The Aebersold CDs lend themselves both to the detailed study of the theory of jazz well presented in the books, AND to using the CDs as a way to learn to hear chord changes from different kinds of songs. You can read the theory and try to apply it, or at a more simple level you can just start to play the melodies to the standard rhythm section CDs and then start to embellish with many of the note substitutions and other "licks" and rhythmic substitutions that suggest themselves, experimenting endlessless until some of the patterns of jazz become apparent.
The Aebersold series has more than 100 CDs, including some that are relatively slow and use modal songs with relatively simple chord changes. As I came back into playing after a 30 year "hiatus," I found that playing umpteen choruses of Maiden Voyage really helped reorient my thinking (not to mention motivating me to keep going more than just playing standard exercises ever has). Someday I hope to become skilled enough again to play umpteen choruses of Ornithology at which point the next challenge will be umpteen choruses of Giant Steps.
A 9 minute recording by Dave Brubeck's original group from his college days in the 1950s illustrates well and simply the addition of "jazz styles" to a standard tune. In their recording of "How High the Moon," the Dave Brubeck Octet starts with the basic tune, takes it through a standard Dixieland permutation, Ragtime, Swing, Bop, a "tenor band," and a "post-modern Fugue" complete with narration from a San Francisco jazz DJ of the time. A young Bill Smith totally nails the different styles of jazz clarinet used in different eras (he sounds very much like Benny Goodman's recording of How High the Moon), and Paul Desmond also nails the different alto sax styles including Charlie Parker. [The rest of the CD is in the post-modern style Brubeck and his colleagues were experimenting with before the famous quartets with Paul Desmond and later Bill Smith.] The song or CD can be downloaded for a minimal price from iTunes.
If you want to learn to hear jazz styles, consider picking a standard jazz tune that has been recorded by many artists (like How High the Moon or Ornithology or Sweet Georgia Brown or any of dozens of others) and downloading 30 or more recordings of that song from an online music source like iTunes. Listening to a number of the most skilled improvisors on different instruments play the same chord changes with different rhythmic embellishments, styles, and substitutions gives you both a historical and technical perspective on what jazz is about.
George
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2005-09-14 02:47
Dear kman1000; I have been playing jazz and I think that I know all the harmony, after all, it is just a trade but there are 12 keys to master. Do not forget that jazz tunes have chord clusters that modulate around in various keys, all of them. I have a paper, back-to-back, of my harmony. I would like to send it to you or fax it but not email it. But I do not know how to set that up. Let us start with most everything: If you are in a C major cluster of chords then you can use the C D E F G A and B harmonic and natural minor scales. Some of them take off real good from the C major chord-scale that you are using while others resolve back to that C major real good. For example, the E harmonic or natural minor (based on the G major scale, of course) is like a movement from G to C, a fourth, simple, good. The two C minors will also go straight to C major, I know how they justify that. The two D minors are an excellent takeoff scale from the C major because they are based on F major: C to F, a fourth, simple, good. But have the piano play chords without the fifth, put it in the refrigerator. The Best, Ken
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-10-21 03:49
I have been convinced for years at the heartbeat of great "jazz" are its culture, attitude and unique language; never merely a series of unintelligible patterns and scales. I recall reading Clark Terry quoted as saying, "Imitation, assimilation, and then innovation." Substantive and memorable improvising is a lifetime process of self-searching internalization; a journey of failure, hope and success in which none EVER truly "arrives." And, the moment one believes it so they instantly cease growing as a musician.
Avenues of pursuit (ca-ching) when carving out a personal pedigree include: buying, listening and exposure to a wide idiomatic variety (all discs cited in the thread are fine choices.) Always a bargain hunter, in retail I've found Wal*Mart, Best Buy compilations and "Best ofs" in cut-out bins and discount baskets to be plentiful, cheap and have sufficient variety/track selection.
Incorporate a steady diet of "jazz vocalists" for a lyrical perspective (traditional, swing-era, popular and contemporary; i.e., Dinah Washington, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Judy Garland, Louis Armstrong, Johnny Hartman, Joe Williams, Nat Cole, Frank Sinatra, Bobby McFerrin and Al Jarreau.
Listen, play and write-out solos; Benny Goodman and Artie Shaw are ideal for this kind of exercise and repertoire building ... always remembering to focus and center effort on style and instrumentalist(s) of most interest. If into mainstream and/or hard bop, listen and emulate more of players, Ron Odrich, Alvin Batiste, Tony Scott and Buddy Defranco.
Instead of regurgitating a Parker Omni book, use recordings to create your own workbook of lifts (use Eddie Daniels' 1/4=360 version of Donna Lee.) You'll gain infinite experience and skills in ear training, transcribing, critical listening, theory and practical application as well as "forcing you" to internalize solos in painstaking detail --- one note, phrase, riff, lick and fingering at a time.
(Among several others) I privately recommend the below methods; I use them and a product OF them (even though I'm predominately a trad/Dixie, Harold Cooper clone.) They're all results-producing, visual, kinetic, verbal, emotional, theoretical, associative, and instill concrete fundamentals. Most importantly, they spark individual creative instinct, concept of sound and stylistic self-identity.
A must buy: Two (2) New Real Books (2nd editions keyed in C plus instrument;) use for daily sight-reading, memorizing/mastering standard lit and for solfeg.
David Baker Jazz Pedagogy: A Comprehensive Method of Jazz Education for Teacher and Student (Spiral-bound:)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0882844830/103-9976897-3379851?v=glance&n=283155&n=507846&s=books&v=glance
Mike Steinel: Building a Jazz Vocabulary:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0793521610/103-9976897-3379851?v=glance&n=283155&%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
Jerry Coker's Complete Method for Improvisation: For All Instruments
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0769218563/103-9976897-3379851?v=glance&n=283155&s=books&v=glance
MMO - The Clarinet Artistry of Ron Odrich (2 CD Set)
http://www.musicminusone.com/Main/Details.asp?AlbumID=334
More superb jazz improvisation methods:
1) Jerry Bergonzi's: "Melodic Structures" Vol. I & II w/CD (relies heavily on permutations and counting scale tones.)
2) Jim Grantham's: "Jazzmaster Cookbook" Series (1993 Complete Edition, Sections 1-3, 12 CDs/cassettes in all keys; system builds and combines traditional theory concepts and ear training; places strong emphasis on repetitive pattern exercises.) v/r Ken
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2005-10-22 23:28
Dear kman1000; I have continued to develop my jazz harmony manual. Here is a good tool for me to use all the scales at once and then to trim down with casual undemanding experiments. Let us say that the primary scale is Ccm (compound minor, the natural and harmonic minor scale) because they sound good all by themselves. Precede it by Abmm (melodic minor) from its dominant chord G7alt, and follow it by the diminished of the same root (that turns the Ccm into a Ccm Cdim or a IIm7 V7 phrase, the "I" can follow or not, really). This is: Abmm Ccm Cdim. Now do it again transposed up a fourth or down a whole step or what have you. You will be surprized at how easily that Cdim will lead to any other, almost, mm scale. Leave out the mm scales and your last scale won't so easily led to other scales, sorry, Play, say: Ccm Cdim, Bbcm Bb dim, Abcm etc. There you have II V I effect all the way down and it sounds good and traditional. Tell me that reason is an objective historical force in music, Ken Mills
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Author: kman1000
Date: 2005-10-25 06:59
awesome!! Thanks for the advice, Ken. I surely will take heed to it. Thanks again!!
Tony :-)
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2005-10-26 02:21
Dear allencole; Aebersold, yes: Now let us go to minor key harmony since we are using only minor scales as our primary scales (in a major key one can wait until the end of the tune to use the key's major triad), and it will be easy to learn how to spell out the natural minor scales fast in your head. Since C is the example, let us look at Ccm. A tune in a minor key means that the key's scale is the harmonic or natural minor, not the dorian minor. Tritone substitution applies to the I, IV, and V chords of this C minor key. So that gives us the Abmm,Dbmm,and Ebmm scales, respectively, but you don't have to wait for the chord which justifies the scale to come along. Oh, that is even easier. The Aebersold vol. 54, Maiden Voyage, has the last track that is ideal for this kind of harmony and it is named IIIm7 VI7 IIm7 V7 and luckily puts our Bb instruments in Eb major or the Ccm (may as well call it Ccm because the tonic major is gone). This is also training for the first two bars of the Coker example (above). Here, we are sticking to only one cm scale for the whole tune. Major or minor, that is traditional, not for us.
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-10-27 13:36
(kman1000 wrote: "I'm looking for songs like "Moonlight" and "Northern Lights" by Kenny G -smooth jazz / As for exciting jazz - "Sweet Georgia Brown" by Tim McLaughlin) "
You're most welcome. I was going to hold-off on future posts until my personal project was complete and forward to Webmaster, however, since there was a specific tune request here's my own version of "Sweet Georgia Brown."
Sink your teeth into this one... v/r Ken
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-10-27 13:38
Attachment.
Apologies; the attachment is too large (5 pages). If interested, please email me at kkolb@cfl.rr.com and I'll forward privately. Ken
Post Edited (2005-10-27 13:46)
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2005-11-02 02:07
Dear ken; One way to approach these tunes is to recognize how fundamental Sweet Georgia Brown is. As I said above, the III VI II V progression in vol 54 of the Aebersold is simple with lots of notes that can be accommodated on it if you want to use some secondary harmony that consists of diminished and melodic minor scales. It is really amenable to them. The most popular Rhythm Changes (Gershwin) uses only that pattern repeatedly except for bar six which has the Bb7 to tonic C major. What we have in rhythm changes in C is: Em7 A7 Dm7 G7. The A7 is not diatonic (not all from the white keys of the piano, in other words) because of that C#. It all looks like a pattern going in whole steps Em7 A7 then Dm7 G7. You can play it that way for hours up and down (until bar six). Or you begin by doing it in the way that I described in the above message on vol 54 with one basic scale as the key's scale. Sweet Georgia Brown just repeats this pattern in a cycle of fourths for four steps until repeating. Now let me discuss the Bb7 to C later. Yikes, I like it because the Bb7 is a dominant too! Carry On, Ken Mills
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The Clarinet Pages
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