 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-04 22:06
Hi folks
I am recently retired to live in Spain and have plenty of spare time!
I fell in love with the clarinet when, as a teenager, I saw The Benny Goodman Story, and I bought a Martin Freres, Paris, instrument.
I struggled for about a year before damaging a key and giving up.
There were no teachers available nearby, and I couldn't make a 'nice sound' :(
Now, 40something years on, I'd like to try again, but wonder if I've left it too late to be able to progress to making that elusive 'nice sound' ??
I don't have any unrealistic ambitions, but will get frustrated if I can't achieve that within a reasonable time
I have no real musical training but have found that I have an excellent ear for pitch and an ability to remember tunes.
(this was v useful in Saudi Arabia where I helped a band to produce sheet music!!)
So, what do you think? Should I go for it, assuming I can find a good teacher here, or stick to practising my golf (too expensive to play often!)?
Thanks
Best regards
Roger
Post Edited (2005-09-05 07:08)
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Author: ClariBone
Date: 2005-09-04 22:36
Roger
You are never too old!!!
The nice sound you mentioned, will be easier to produce in a short amount of time with the help of a good teacher, and of course a clarinet in good condition (preferably a Buffet, LeBlanc, Selmer, or Yamaha).
Get a hold of some good recordings of professional clarinet players to help you understand what a "nice sound" is.
Play in a couple of amatuer groups like a community band or orchestra, or jazz ensemble, anything you can find. You'd be suprised how much fun you will have and how much you will learn by playing with many different people who play many different instruments!!
Clayton
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-09-04 22:49
Its never too late to start! Im going to be teaching lessons to beginning players 50 years old and older starting next week through the New Horizons Band program. Play and have fun!!!
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-04 22:50
I have an 80 year old student who is just now learning to read music.
You are never too old! But get a decent instrument as that can make a world of difference.
Post Edited (2005-09-04 22:51)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-09-04 22:51
(I edited my posting from NOT to JUST NOW)
messed up the spelling thus completely changing the meaning of it 
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-04 23:12
Thanks for the encouragement :-)
I have lots of clarinet recordings - my first ever LP purchase was Gervase de Peyer playing Mozart, and I especially like Eddie Daniels.
Trouble is that sound is almost demotivating by its (perceived) unattainabilty!
I am going to UK next week and hope to visit the factory where Hanson clarinets are made, witha view to a possible purchase.
Their instruments are getting a good reputation, I believe, and I like the idea of dealing with a family firm where one's email queries are answered by the MD!
Their website is at:
http://www.hansonclarinets.com/
Regards
Best regards
Roger
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-09-05 00:14
Hmmm . . . recordings of Gervase de Peyer and Eddie Daniels? Interested in checking out Hanson clarinets? Sounds like you're on the right track so far . . . .
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-09-05 00:45
Whether it's clarinet or anything else, you just need to ask yourself:
Is this something I really want to do?
Or, to put it a better way,
Is this something I will always regret not doing?
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-09-05 05:41
Too old to start? Compared to some of us around here, Roger, you're still a youngster
Subjectively speaking with sixty years, more or less, of hob-nobbing with all kinds, all ages, all skill facets considered (to back up my response)... it's NEVER too late.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: D
Date: 2005-09-05 06:16
You are on the right track with Hanson, Maria (admin) is great. Given half the chance she will talk your ear off.
I also doubt you will be able to bend a key on a Hanson, particularly a student model, they are built like tanks. I have recently acquired a T5 (high intermediate/entry level pro), sound is astonishing.
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-05 07:05
Thanks for that input, D, I hadn't previously 'spoken' to a Hanson user, but just liked the company's 'style'.
Alastair advised me that a T5, in the new material BTR, would be all I'd ever need and suitable for the Spanish climate.
The T5 is a bit outside my budget, so I might get an SE-5 first, in view of their amazing trade-in, warranty, and servicing policies!!
Regards
It's encouraging that no-one so far has said anything negative, either about my 'aspirations', OR my possible choice of supplier (especially as I'd bet there are very few Hanson players reading this :-) )
Best regards
Roger
Post Edited (2005-09-05 07:11)
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-09-05 09:24
Don't underestimate the benefit of buying from a local shop, with a repair tech on site who can look after the instrument for you. Built like a tank or not, clarinets can and do get out of adjustment. Walk into a shop with a brand they've probably never seen before, they may not be willing to help, especially if they are snowed under with business as many techs are.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-05 12:29
Hello Rogerb40uk,
Where do you live in Spain now? I have many clarinet contacts in Spain and can turn you on to them, if you don't know them already. Good luck with your new venture.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-09-05 13:46
Hi Roger - A bit late responding to your ?'s, perhaps, but I'm in general agreement with all that has been said, yes, Go For It ! I'm 85, been playing something for about 75, dont even think of stopping, tho my ears and eyes, etc "aint what they used to be". Ive found that playing bass clarinet [as well as possible] is my greatest pleasure/challenge, but recommend to young/older starters to learn at least something of the soprano cl first. Yes, lessons, if possible, are highly desireable, but Keith Stein's and Jack Brymer's [plus many other's, such as Al Rice's "histories"] books will be of great help to you. Along with a number of the more-common insts. [my preferences are Selmer and Leblanc cls], I've acquired a few of the unusuals, to "tweak" my engineering curiousities as well as books and patents on them. I've begun giving some insts. to our several museums, for continuing education for "our followers/improvers" benefit. All in all, it has been a very enjoyable, lifetime hobby. Best wishes, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-09-05 15:58
Don's response reminds me that one of our local community bands is quite happy, and a bit boastful about one of their three bass clarinetists -- he's ninty-six!
- ron b -
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-09-05 16:29
"Beats Me", Ron - Until recently our local symp. had a cellist approaching 100, however he was having trouble back and forth to playing-chair, and appeared [to me] of nearly sleeping and not playing the more difficult parts. I can relate to those "problems", however still, get most of the tough passages on B C, and while getting winded [still learning breathing, I guess] playing the [band arr.] continuo to Jesu, Joy ---- [on and on] am managing without relief. Hang in there, us "golden-agers", Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-09-05 16:49
Age is not a criterium, 'quality' when playing is.
we have a few older people (>80) in the band, and I don't really mind, as long as they back off when appropriate and go for it when possible.
Music is simply much to important for them to stop, it's part of there life, and i think it would shorten their lifes if they stopped. (it certainly would mine - being 'only' 42)
So, just hope everyone (including myself) has the wisdom to know when and when not to play !!
Post Edited (2005-09-05 16:50)
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-09-05 18:21
Well, the ninty-six yrs/young B.cl. player, when we saw him perform with the Fourth of July 'consolidated' band, shuffled about using a walker and someone carried his instrument to his seating place. When seated and positioned, he played right along with the rest of the section and wonderfully enjoyed the action of making music. From an audience point of view it was also an event priceless to behold
- rb -
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-05 18:48
Hi Ben
I live about 30mins drive south of Alicante, quite near the holiday town of Torrevieja, on the Costa Blanca.
Any contacts would be gratefully received, although my Spanish is still not as god as I would like!
Thanks again to all who have responded.
The MD of Hanson clarinets suggests I might be better advised to try my other love first, the alto sax, as he says it's a bit more 'encouraging' to an 'impatient learner' like me, so I'd be less likely to become discouraged.
I'm sure many of you out there play both instruments. What do you think?
Roger
Best regards
Roger
Post Edited (2005-09-28 20:37)
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-09-05 21:59
rogerb40uk,
I think you should start on the instrument that interests you the most. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. If you practice diligently, you will make good progress on either instrument. To reduce the risk, you could rent a sax and see if it suits you better than clarinet, which you have tried in the past.
Artie Shaw started on alto sax, if I remember correctly, and added the clarinet later, and it probably didn't do his playing any harm.
I started on clarinet 46 years ago and added the sax three years later. I prefer the clarinet, and play sax occasionally now for a change of pace. Chacun a son gout.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: Tyler
Date: 2005-09-05 23:37
Start playing. You won't regret it if you keep trying.
-Tyler
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-09-06 06:40
Like Hans said, you should play the instrument yolu like the best. I personally can't understand why anyone would prefer saxophone (which is a very annoying sounding instrumnet) over clarinet
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-06 08:07
I love both clarinet & alto sax and have tried both in the distant past. I lean *very slightly* more to the clarinet, but would be delighted to have either.
My problem is impatience; I know that if I don't get a 'reasonable' sound reasonably quickly, I will get frustrated. I have to be realistic about this !
Alastair Hanson took account of my telling him this, in recommending the alto (first).
I shall be in the vicinity of Hanson's next week & have been invited to visit - watch this space :-)
I can't think of any musical instrument which, played well, is 'annoying' to me, although, played badly......
I remember my school orchestra(all strings), playing, to my ear, off-pitch; it nearly put me off playing *anything* for life :-)
Best regards
Roger
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-09-06 08:32
Another thing to think about is, in 99% of the cases, if you start with clarinet and then add sax later the sax will be pretty easy, but if you start with sax and then add clarinet the clarinet will not be as easy.
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-06 10:13
I don't think there will be a 'first and second', it will be 'either... or...' :-)
Roger
Best regards
Roger
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Author: RichardB
Date: 2005-09-06 16:14
I started playing last year at the age of 49. Never played an instrument before, and I couldn't read music. I am still playing after 10 months, and I enjoy it immensely. I found progress to be fast enough for me, so that I didn't get impatient. I used Galper's book and he spends a lot of lessons on low notes before progressing above the break, so you build up muscle strength before trying stuff that will make you impatient.
Go for it!
Richard
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-09-06 17:49
I would suggest clarinet over sax for several practical (rather than purely subjective) reasons, all of which you are free to ignore or disagree with:
Clarinets are cheaper than saxes, for equivalent quality.
Clarinet is a bit quieter and less liable to cause major trauma with neighbours.
Concert bands need more clarinets than saxes.
Clarinet has a bigger range and is thus better able to cope with music originally written for other intruments.
If you need to play untransposed music, clarinets in C are quite easy to come by; saxes in C are not.
Clarinet is more portable - a consideration if you might want to cycle to band practice so you can have a beer afterwards, or if you fly regularly to the UK and want to keep in practice.
There is some truly great music written for clarinet, little or none for sax. (And yes, I am implying some extremely stringent criteria here, and maybe there will be howls of protest.)
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-06 22:49
I can't really disagree with *any* of that, David, all points except the last are self-evident :-)
(On second thoughts I *might* take issue with the 'relative prices' point, especially at the lower end (eg <GBP800-900), but I'm not going to !!)
The real question for me is "Which am I more likely to stick with?".
I think you have, between you, answered the one in the Subject header :-)
Roger
Best regards
Roger
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-09-07 10:54
If you are as impatient as you say - and the way you write tends to confirm it - then I'm not sure you should be playing any instrument, nor golf neither.
On either sax or clarinet, after three months you'll probably feel quite pleased with your progress. You'll reckon you're producing quite a decent sound.
After six months you'll realise that you are actually producing a truly terrible sound. Not because you've got worse. Because you've become more self-critical.
For years and years you will go 2 steps forward, 1.9 steps back. You will find that things that used to seem easy suddenly seem difficult. You will notice that your beautiful legato actually sounds like a misfiring two-stroke. When once you'd have felt satisfied to play a piece note-perfect one time in ten, you'll find you want to play it note-perfect ten times out of ten. Then not just note-perfect, but with artistry as well.
You will need a lot of patience.
All instruments are like this. There are no easy ones. Golf, so they tell me, is exactly the same.
If all this is self-evident to you, then I'm sorry, but I do not understand what question you are asking.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-09-07 11:29
Hello Rogerb40UK,
If you'd like to contact me off-line, I'll be glad to tell you about great teachers, performers, and music stores in Valencia, Spain mainly, but also in other areas.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-07 13:44
David, I am sorry if you thought my use of the term 'self-evident' was in any way patronising or rude. It was not intended to be.
I did wonder when I typed it, but just meant that those points you made could not really be argued-with.
Just about everyone else has said "No you are NOT 'too old to start'", which was very encouraging.
I understand the patience required to become a competent player of any musical instrument which you articulated so clearly, and I, alone, have to decide whether I have it.
The question which 'developed' from the input I have received was whether an alto sax would be a little easier than a clarinet to 'get started' with, and hence rather less likely to cause the initial frustration of just not making a 'half-decent' sound.
[Golf, IMO, is very different, especially if one has some facility for ball-games.
What keeps me going with that game is the few really sweet shots I achieve in any round, and the fact that it is *such* a 'mind-game', which really fascinates me.
I was able to become just 'good enough to enjoy it' quite quickly, although I shall never be brilliant.]
Thanks for your advice
Roger
Best regards
Roger
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2005-09-07 14:25
Roger,
Much good advice has been offered, especially by David Peacham.
There are a couple of things that you can do to increase your success of learning an instrument.
1. Get a teacher. It's very important to learn the correct way to play an instrument. Also having a teacher allows you to play duets. This is very important because you must start making music with another person.
2. Play with others. The more often you can play with other people, the better you'll get.
Now you are deciding between the clarinet and alto sax. Since you've retired to Spain you must have some musician friends that you know. See what instruments they play and make a decision.
For example, you have three friends: one plays the flute, another the oboe, and another the bassoon. Learning the clarinet would be advantageous here because you're instrument would work well here.
If you have friends who play jazz, then you might choose the alto sax. I offer this advice because it seems you could learn either instrument and be content.
Most importantly, because you're retired you spend alot of time with your friends. So you have to play an instrument that works well with what they are playing.
Good luck,
Ron Jr.
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Author: johng ★2017
Date: 2005-09-07 14:51
There is an advertisement in the Musician's Union paper for a magazine called "Making Music". Their ad title is "You're Never Too Old to Make Music". Since this seems to go with this thread I thought I might point it out. I am not selling this and have only looked through their web site a little, but it could be of interest. Their web site is www.makingmusicmag.com
johng
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-26 20:29
Sorry, I have been away; among other activities in UK I visited Hanson's in Yorkshire, where I was given a warm welcome & had a very enjoyable and interesting visit. Their instruments really do appear to be of excellent quality and very good value.
Many thanks to all of you who took the trouble to reply and advise. I have decided to 'go for it' on the clarinet!
I am still looking for a teacher in this area. Unfortunately, Ron Jr, I have no musician friends out here, although Ben has kindly pointed me at some possible 'contacts'.
Best regards
Roger
Post Edited (2005-09-27 07:16)
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Author: wallstreet_jim
Date: 2005-09-26 20:52
One is never too old to start. Think of the joy of making music. After just a few short months, especially if you have "pitch", you will be making beautiful music. I highly recommend working with someone that will teach you the basics of reading music. It's a great skill to have, and the clarinet (unlike a piano) is a single clef instrument - reading music will be a breeze!
Go for it. You'll never regret it.
Jim
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Author: mags
Date: 2005-09-26 21:16
Roger, ....Let not your dying words be ' I wish I'd learned to play the clarinet'. Whether you are 16 or 86....you should still make time for yourself to do something you want to do. There is no rule book or law that says...'you mustn't try anything new as you get older'.....I am 47 now. I started to learn the clarinet at 45....It's easy to think it's too late...but actually...Roger.....it's not. ...'Sieze the day!'
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Author: mags
Date: 2005-09-26 21:26
Sorry, Just read a few of the other replies. Roger, I play with a Hanson clarinet which is an se5 although I have a van doren mouthpiece on it. I also play the alto sax. Alistair Hanson is very nice. I have spoken to him on the phone a few times myself. I hope you enjoyed their new premises as their old one got broken into and I believe it was all trashed. Anyway...how exciting......hope you have great fun!!!! Margaret.
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Author: sarnia
Date: 2005-09-28 03:54
Hi Roger.. Join the club, Its great fun, I played brass as a boy 7yrs old, then
drifted into Benny Goodman/ Glen Miller & the lovely controlled playing of
Artie Shaw.. age 16yrs AFN Frankfurt and VOA were the order of the day 1956- 1960. The Alto took over, taught myself ,practiceing for hours in my grand-fathers shed...then small dancebands......England/Channel Islands.
Now aged 64yrs I decided I wanted to learn Clarinet, a good challenge
so about 4 study books later and the help of this site we are going great guns ( NO Teachers) Books: Learn as you play Clarinet.. Wastall.
Rubank One.. & Two , Pares Scales , Essential Elements Clarinet 1 & 2
& The Clarinet , Otto Langey...
The best fingering chart and the easiest too understand was the one by a young lady on this site ,,I think it is in the beginners section/students..
So after 3mths we are into many old favorites,plus a , Rubank Soloist Folio No60.. Passage Studies 2nd Vol Frederick Thurston and Graded Wind Music Series , New Pieces for Clarinet Book11. Grades 5 & 6 RS of Music,
If you want to do it you'll do it, it will take dedication and a metodical
approach . Go for it its later than you Think !!! I only have a E11 but it sounds beautiful......Best of luck email if you want to .. fretter @ xtra.co.nz...
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Author: rockymountainbo
Date: 2005-09-28 11:30
I'm 33 and have been playing for 5 months. I tried for a few months at age 30, but I had to stop when Kid#1 came along. I love the clarinet...even after 20 years of guitar playing (I still love guitar too) and can only wish that I not only hit the age of 80+, but that I can say I still play this here horn. Go for it! You will regret it if you don't. Happy tootin.
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-09-28 12:28
Thanks to sarnia( I have emailed you), and also to rockymountainbo!
I am not optimistic about finding a teacher nearby, so will need to get the best books, CDs & DVDs, so I can be *thoroughly* confuzzed!!
Best regards
Roger
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2005-09-28 13:09
Roger,
Three things are ESSENTIAL for a happy retirement:
1. Money - to do the things you want
2. Health - so the body is not a burden
3. Hobbies - to keep the mind and body active
So learning to play the clarinet fits into number 3, Hobbies.
In a couple of months you should be able to play simple arrangements with another musician. It will probably take you 5 years with one hour a day of playing to get good enough to enjoy your own playing.
The most important aspect of playing an instrument is to quickly start playing with others. So if there is a Spanish university nearby, start taking lessons. In time you can play duets with your teacher and perhaps with other students.
Enjoy.
Ron Jr.
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Author: rogerb40uk
Date: 2005-10-01 09:02
Oh dear, Ron Jr, that's a bit of a downer !
I haven't got much of No1 which is why my golf(No3) has had to have the heave-ho (trying to speak American, here <g> )
I thought that learning clarinet might be a relatively inexpensive alternative to my No3s which are, for various reasons, impractical here in Spain.
Fortunately, I think my No2 is up to it!!!
The other problem is your strong recommendation of finding other musicians to play with. This place seem to be a bit of a 'cultural desert', although I am sure there *are* some like-minded souls out there.
(There is a plethora of karaoke bars :-O)
Not being fluent in the language is making finding them rather a 'challenge' !
Best regards
Roger
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