 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Amber
Date: 2000-03-22 03:26
Hi,
I am a junior in high school. Because of my busy involvement in school and band, I can't get a job, but have managed to save enough money with allowence and babysitting to up grade from my bundy!(yea!!)
A friend has offered me a set of buffet R-13 Bb and A for 1700 dollars. I had only wanted the Bb but he won't sell them seperately. Both have just recently been overhauled and in beautiful condition.
I plan to at least minor in music education and need to know how often would I use the A? Does it seem like a good deal? It is really important that I be really careful with my money and be smart about this.( My mother would never let me hear the end of it), Thank you all for any advice you could give me!!:o)
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Author: Kim
Date: 2000-03-22 03:36
I want an A clarinet, too. I am a sophomore in college. I am getting really good, and possibly will be first or second chair in the fall, which means ORCHESTRA!  If you are planning on playing in orchestra you should invest in an A clarinet.
An A clarinet is just used in orchestra, and the Bb and Eb in band. The Bb is also used in orchestra, but when the music says "in A" you need to switch to the A clarinet.
Good luck and I hope you get it!
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Author: Meri
Date: 2000-03-22 03:44
Amber:
At your level, given that you are only a junior, having both an A and a Bb clarinet is not worth the money. Since he won't sell separately, I wouldn't even consider buying from that person--there are lots of people who would sell a Bb separately from the A.
In addition, most high school orchestras do not even play pieces that require the A clarinet, and you probably do not have access to most of the pieces that use one. If you find there are a fair number of pieces that require the A clarinet, it might be worth it.
I myself would not even buy a matching Bb/A set, because one can be really good, and the other instrument really horrible.
So, don't buy it from that person. There are plenty of people who would be more than happy to sell them separately.
Meri
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Author: Daniel
Date: 2000-03-22 06:29
For that price, you might want to have your teacher check the horns out and make sure there's nothing wrong with them. Also make sure the serial numbers place these horns after 1955 so you know they're genuine R-13's as we know them today. Considering an R-13 Bb sells new for about $1800 (give or take), it sounds like a great offer.
Are they two separate clarinets or are they a matched set (same serial numbers). If it's a matched set, it one could be great and the other a dog. But if they are two individual horns, then likely they'd both be good atleast for your friend. They might not be the right horns for you, of course.
As has been stated by the Kim and Meri, if you plan on playing in an orchestra, you will need an A or else get very good at transposing down a half step. There's one piece i can think of off the top of my head for band that calls for A clarinet (though it's underscored for Bb as well): Pines of Rome.
There's some recital/solo literature that calls for A, such as the Schuman Fantasypieces and Three Romances, Stravinsky Three Pieces, and some other pieces i can't think of this late.
However, contrary to Meri's opinion, you might as well pick up the A if the two horns work for you (especially for $850 a piece). I bought mine as a high school freshman and used it regularly throught high school and so far in college.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-03-22 11:32
I agree with Daniel - if they're they're both in good shape and R13s, the price is just too good.
Re: music for A, you don't need an orchestra to need an A. Piano reductions for orchestral pieces abound (gee, how many of you have played K.622 <i>without</i> an orchestra as opposed to those who <i>have</i>?), along with some sonatas (the Poulenc Duo Sonata springs to mind - I'm sure there's more).
If both clarinets are in good shape mechanically, tone, and intonation wise, you'll kick yourself later on for not buying the set.
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Author: James
Date: 2000-03-22 14:26
Amber,
The above posts all contain much good advice. I would have a teacher who plays clarinet, a college clarinet instructor, or a professional in your area (hopefully some of these people are available) check out the instruments before you buy them. That price sounds incredibly good. if you live in the houston area, e-mail me and i will be happy to check them out for you. By the way, Short Ride on a Fast Machine by Adams (can't remember his first name) calls for Bb and A clarinets.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-22 14:35
It should be obvious what function the A cl provides for our playing, but since its not been said, here goes. When you encounter music in the "difficult" key signatures [for Bb], many sharps or flats, having the parts transposed [originally or later] for the A makes playing it much simpler, particularly for the lower clarion notes, where much cross-fingering [plan-ahead activity] is eliminated . I first encountered it playing Gilbert & Sullivan operettas in high school. I did find a troublesome section in Music Man which I played on an A much better! Also much music written in the 1800's, when keying improvements were gradually being made, was orchestrated for A for ease of playing. In addition, the A is a different-sounding cl [as is the C] and some composers made use of the tonality differences [from mellow to bright] to characterize their compositions. As mentioned Respeghi [sp?] and Smetana [sp?, for C] are examples. I'm sure this is too long, read up on it in Brymer, Rendall et al who say it better and in greater detail than I can. Luck, Don
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Author: BAC
Date: 2000-03-22 16:59
>> Also make sure the serial numbers place these horns after >> 1955 so you know they're genuine R-13's as we know them >> today.
Can someone explain the above statement? It implies that R13's today are not real R13's?
Bac
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Author: Meri
Date: 2000-03-22 17:02
Amber:
Another consideration about getting both clarinets at the same time is that you're going to need about half that money for your instruments when you enter college or university. Music is a very expensive undergraduate program and the cost of books is much higher than for most other undergraduate programs. (at least in Canada--tuition for Music is about $4500 (before incidentials), and $1500-2500 for books.
Also, if you only use the A occasionally, you're probably better off renting or borrowing one. Very few high school clarinetists own an A clarinet, and neither do most college music students.
Get your teacher's advice.
Meri
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-03-22 17:06
R13s of today are the "real" R13s as we understand the term, but earlier than 1955, when the Buffet company officially named a model the R-13, Buffets sold in the U.S.A. also had a U. S. catalogue designation of R followed by a number, including R13 (meaning 13 keys). It's a confusing situation, since the pre-1955 and post-1955 R13s are definitely two different models of clarinet. That earlier model (I own one, from 1937) is a very nice clarinet indeed, but it has a wider bore than the modern R13 and does not have the polycylindrical bore. Some of the keywork is also different, I gather, although I don't have a modern R13 for comparison. To avoid confusion, I never call mine an R13; I just refer to it as a 1937 Buffet.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-22 18:41
From what little I know of Buffet's recent history, the big change in their "flagship" R 13 occured in the mid 50's as a result of Caree's work toward a poly-cylindrical bore [I can find the patent no.]to improve intonation characteristics. Others , please add to this. Lee Gibson in "Clarinet Acoustics" goes into this subject in detail, with measurements etc, I recommend it for study. Don
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-03-22 19:47
Meri wrote:
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(at least in Canada--tuition for Music is about $4500 (before incidentials), and $1500-2500 for books.
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LOL!
Tuition at 4500 (canadian)? Tuition at U of Mich for in-state is about 10 grand, with 5 on top for room & board (dorm required for the 1st year) - $15K 1st year. Out-of-state I think is over 20K. Conservatories/private schools are significantly more expensive. Even with a good scholarship it'll be in the low 5 figures including room & board for most students.
Luckily the books won't be that expensive (for some reason - I don't know why yours would be that expensive. My son went through about $500 so far this year in books. The music he either already owned or he borrows from the music library).
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Author: Keil
Date: 2000-03-22 22:36
In order to answer your question concisely and to the point... The price for the set of R13's is extraordinary. Whether you use the A alot or not that is a good deal if the clarinets are up to snuff. If you are interested in orchestral playing, as was mentioned in other replies, you will definetly want to invest in an A clarinet. I'm currently having my private teacher keep and eye out for an A clarinet. The A clarinet does have a different timbre, tone quality, that is remarkable but requires much practice to obtain. Under extraordinary circumstances, i prefer the A to my Bb, however these situations don't come around often. I have used my teachers A clarinet In Shostakovich's Symphony No. 7 and one of Dvorak symphonies, can't remember which one. If the clarinets are good don't wait another minute and go ahead and purchase them. Congrats, you've found yourself a bargain.
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Author: Amber
Date: 2000-03-22 23:22
Thank you everyone for your advice. My private teacher is very good, but she lives kinda far from me and with no phone or computer, so I can only see her every other week, which makes me forget my questions or it's too late. As to the serial number question one is 128___ and the other is 782__. The ink ran on the paper and I can't read the rest of the numbers, Are these still good? Are they "real" R-13s
Thanks again!!!!!:o)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-03-22 23:30
Amber wrote:
-------------------------------As to the serial number question one is 128___ and the other is 782__. The ink ran on the paper and I can't read the rest of the numbers, Are these still good? Are they "real" R-13s
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Yes. 128xxx dates to 1972, 78xxx dates to 1963-1964.
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Author: Jeff
Date: 2000-03-23 01:38
I would like to get an A, but since I just got a R-13 Bb in Jan., I can't really afford a R-13 A. Should I save up my money and get a pro A or get a Intermediate model in the near future?
Jeff
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Author: Kim
Date: 2000-03-23 02:37
When I asked my clarinet professor if I should get an E-13, she crinkled her nose and suggested a used A. I'd rather have a new A too, but I don't know. Money doesn't grow on trees. Sometimes I wish it did!
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Author: Erin :)
Date: 2000-03-23 03:31
Another band piece that uses A clarinet- Short Ride in a Fast Machine.... also lots of chamber pieces...
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Author: ClarinetChica
Date: 2000-03-24 01:28
Hey all..
Yep, I got a problem. I need an A clarinet, don't have one.. don't know where to get one, nobody around here rents them, etc. Any suggestions?
Also.. I was considering playing Eb soprano clarinet (which I also don't have!) for concert band.. do you think it would be easier to get into Honors bands, etc using that? Thanks!
-Hal
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Author: Kylene
Date: 2000-03-24 03:18
I wish I knew that I could have used an A clarinet to play transposed Bb music in HS. It would have made my life a lot easier during those musicals....
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Author: Keil
Date: 2000-03-24 20:54
As far as the Eb clarinet making it easier to get into district band it all depends on how good you are on it, whether or not there is alot of competition, and if that competition is good. I made 1st chair Eb and 3rd Chair Bb in the symphonic band in my district band. I could only audition on one of them at state so i chose the Bb clarinet. there were only 3 of us trying out on Eb, I suggest you think it over because many find the Eb to be awful me however, i love it... especially since i put on my mouthpiece patch and got a somewhat decent mouthpiece for it!!
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Author: Toby
Date: 2000-03-25 04:32
I just bought a new R13 my teacher went with me to check it out. She brough up the question about oilling it with the salesman,and he recomed not to because if done impropley it can be hard on the springs keys and pads. Since then some players have said it should be oilled.You guys sound like you know what you are talking about,what do you think Thank You
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-03-25 04:46
Toby,
You should have received a care card from Buffet. Please read it and follow their instructions. The instructions will say that Buffet does not recommend oiling a new clarinet since the wood has already been properly oiled.
In some number of years it will start to need oiling.
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