 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-08-28 07:34
Hi all
I've been in a bit of a reed dilemma of late. Gonzalez 3's are a little too hard, while 2.75's are a good strength, but perhaps a little TOO weak.
Is it acceptable to have that slight egde in your tone, in trade for a comfortable strength reed and really responsive articulation?
I can file down 3's, but I usually end up completely destroying the reed!
Does anyone else use reeds that are ever so slightly on the softer side? I know a lot of people prefer hard reeds, but I can't stand it. Any comments or help appreciated!
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Author: jangjiman
Date: 2005-08-28 07:46
I think maybe it's because you're used to the soft reeds. If you like the tone of harder reeds, then you should use them. Practice with them a lot and eventually they will not feel wierd anymore. I know people who are the same way, butafter they get used to harder reeds, the soft ones feel uncomfortable.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-08-28 08:33
Do you mean Gonzalez 3 reeds are a little too hard right out of the box? Usually I like my reeds slightly too hard, because after a few minutes of playing they are in the exact strength.
Also, why are you restricting yourself to Gonzalez? I think there are many good brands of reeds including Vandoren, Gonzalez, Grand Concert, and many more.
Try other brands maybe their strengths will be better for you than Gonzalez.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-08-28 08:39
Trust me, I've wasted a LOT of money on inferior reeds! Gonzalez are definitely for me.
For what it's worth, I DON'T like my sound with hard reeds, but I don't like it with soft either. When I get one that's just right, I like that sound! Too hard sounds forced and I'd rather concentrate on music than how hard I have to blow and articulation gets difficult, if not impossible.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2005-08-28 11:13
Suggest you stick with 3.00's and get ATG system (or other) to fine tune and balance the reeds. Once you gained the necessary skills (not difficult), you'll have very little wastage and will be able to rebalance reeds down the line.
I've even gone back to old reeds (not necesarily Gonzalez) and keep a number all at the same playability.
BobT
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-08-28 11:15
If you are happy with the 3s, perhaps the answer is to get a slightly more closed mouthpiece.
I find that the reed response varies sufficiently with humidity that I can't settle exclusively on one type of reed. Currently I use Evolution 3s when I want a slightly softer reed, FoF 3.5 to go slightly harder. The Evolutions are a bit bright, up to me to tone them down a little.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-28 11:46
I like an easy life, and therefore I use reasonably soft reeds (Vandoren 2.5) - and with a very firm embouchure I get pretty near the sound I have in my head and want to emulate (think of the Russian State Symphony sound, Berlin Philharmonic, Budapest Festival, CSO and Philadelphia sounds, and mix the best elements of them all together).
If I use too hard a reed I find the lower register can sound stuffy, especially the E and C making them sound undervented, but a softer reed makes all the low register notes clear. After working on a Leblanc Basset Horn I tested it using too hard a reed (a Medium Carbon Toptone alto sax reed as they're pretty much identical to alto clarinet reeds, and I had my alto sax to hand) and found all the low register sounded completely stuffy and undervented, even though I had 2.5mm venting on the main action (and cork pads for the top joint) and a minimum of 3mm venting for the extention keys, but with an alto sax Vandoren Java 2 it played perfectly.
Also, too hard a reed makes the top line treble clef F# on bass clarinet a difficult note to attack for me, played in both manners though the cross key fingering (123 4O,O) does have better attack than the standard 'forked' fingering (123 O5O) - maybe an Acton vent would work(!). I do play bass clarinet with a firm embouchure in the low register to get that deep, broad reedy sound, and more relaxed embouchure for the upper register.
I'm using a Med. Soft Codera Harry Hartmann Carbon Toptone Fiberreed (the black and white striped one) on bass. That's why they need such a big box - so they can fit the name on it!
On bari sax I'm using Vandoren Jazz 2.5 - they're probably the best I've tried as each one in the box has been as good as the last (and cosistency has always been an issue with Vandoren reeds), though they don't last all that long (the tip starts to fray after about 2 weeks). I put a fresh one on at the beginning of a gig without even playing it in first, and it played excellently from the word go.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-28 14:13)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-28 12:46
If you have the bucks, you can actually get better results with the reed wizard without being a "reed master".
I use both the reed wizard and the ATG system in tandem and they work great together.
The reed wizard is extremely easy to use and basically fool proof.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-08-28 16:15
I had a Gonzales FOF 3.0 given to me to try. I normally play a Mitchell-Lurie Premium 4-1/2.
The Gonzales was too hard, so I checked it for balance using Ridenour's mouthpiece twist check and found a hard edge. By time I got the reed balanced, it was soft enough to play well!
Ridenour advises to start his ATG adjusting process with reeds that are a little hard because sanding material off of one edge, in addition to balancing the reed, softens it.
Bob Phillips
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Author: DavieCane01
Date: 2005-08-28 17:22
Morrigan,
Go with the 2.75's. You're much better off than wrestling with the 3's. The slight edge/buzz might be nothing more than vibrancy you don't hear in the 3's. Even so, a slight bit of edge in the sound is usually undetectable and, in the vast majority of ears, preferrable to the deadness that accompanies the sound of a reed that is too hard.
We have power here again (I HATE HURRICANES!) and, while I'll be out of the office a good part of tomorrow, you can call me on Tuesday if you need more help.
-peace-
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-28 18:13
By 'slight edge' are you talking about that pronounced sound you get most of the time when you play a lower note? As in the lower chalemeau register?
If so, this is what happens when I'm testing my 3.5's right now. And I find that I can keep the edginess from being heard/felt if I make sure to loosen up my embouchure a bit more than I usually do and really make sure I have the breath support behind it.
Maybe you can try being a little softer on the embouchure and make those 2.75's work for you. Then you'll have the response WITHOUT the worry of that sound.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Burt
Date: 2005-08-28 22:49
When the reed gets a little too soft, I use a reed clipper, then sand the tip very slightly. Or I use the soft reeds for jazz.
I, too, don't like to play with a reed that's too hard. It's just not fun.
Another trick is to move the reed up on the mouthpiece 1/2 mm or so if it's too soft, or down if it's too hard. For reference, the mouthpiece opening is about 1mm.
I'm thankful that Gonzalez and a few other brands some in quarter-strengths. A few years ago, I was not aware of any brand that had quarter-strengths.
If you like your mouthpiece, don't change it to satisfy the reed. That's like the tail wagging the dog.
I use Gonzalez FOF 3.5 reeds and a Vandoren M30 mouthpiece.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-28 22:56
Morrigan,
Have you tried out Zonda reeds? They come in strengths with three levels of hardness per strength (making them slightly more accurate than Gonzalez if you break it down). You might want to try a size 3 soft or size 2.5 hard (they use letters to designate the hardness so you'll have to find a store which lets you order EXACTLY the right letter hardness).
Plus, they are made from the same cane as Gonzalez so you won't have to worry about a change in cane quality.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2005-08-29 00:16
sfalexi, good point, I love Zondas, but find they die too quickly! Although I love their quality and their sound, and I remember they had the exact strength that I liked. But yeah. Gonzalez just have it all, really!
Trust me, I've pretty much tried ALL the reeds out there! Except Mozart, do they still make them? Oh, and Foglietta.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-29 02:51
Daviecane.com still has mozart reeds in stock according to their website (except for size 3.5)
US Army Japan Band
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-08-29 10:28
"Trust me, I've wasted a LOT of money on inferior reeds! Gonzalez are definitely for me."
If you compared Gonzalez with INFERIOR reeds obviously the Gonzalez would be better. How about comparing them with other quality reeds?
Joking aside, I wrote a very long post here but deleted it because the bottom line is you have to adapt to any reed you play, the same as you would to any other type of equipment (new clarinet, new mouthpiece, new girlfriend J/K).
Gonzalez feel hard/soft because of what you are used too. I'm sure what you played before Gonzalez didn't feel perfect at first either.
My advice is (that's what I did and it worked for me) is find the reeds wit hthe best sound you like, and by practicing you will get used to their strength (for me it is Vandoren 3s, which felt a little hard at first and now they feel very comfortable).
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-08-29 12:48
Dear Morrigan
I think it would be easier to simply get used to working with a slightly more resistant set up in terms of reeds...then it allows for a bit of slack on the choice of reeds due to embouchure strength. Also softer reeds I tend to find cause control problems and therefore can be a source of biting etc.
As to mouthpieces that is something I would be cautious about....
I have used #4 Vandoren for a long time and find they are suitable to all of my purposes provided they are adjusted from time to time
Best of Luck
David Dow
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2005-08-29 15:07
Hey Morrigan,
I know exactly what you're going through. I tend to use vandoren 4's that are a bit softer, so it's almost as if I'm in between sizes (4's and 3.5's). If I use a harder reed, it makes me bite and of course not play correctly. So, I do prefer softer reeds since I play correctly, and softer reeds produce a much clearer sound.
When I go through a box and find a reed that's just too hard, I shave it down with my handy-dandy reed knife (you'd be surprised how little you actually need to shave to adjust the reed, so maybe you're doing too much with your file. One stroke sometimes does the trick). Here's an experiment: Try taking a reed that's way too hard for you, and file it down really slowly (one swipe, then play, etc.) See how much the reed changes with each adjustment. I have a feeling that if you are ruining the reed with your file, you're doing way too much. Doing this slowly will help you find the amount you need to file down (or shave with a knife), and hopefully you'll hit the point that's comfortable for playing.
Hope this helps, Good luck!
Gretchen
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