 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: claricat
Date: 2005-08-26 14:53
I was wondering, is the Selmer 10G A clarinet considered to be (generally) better than a Selmer 10 or 10S ?? If so, what is better about it? Intonation, ease of play, or what? Is it any darker of a sound than the 10 or 10S?
I have found a choice between a 10, a 10S, and a 10G for around the same price, and am wondering if I should try the 10G. The 10G is used (but not used much) and is in another state so I would have to send for it to try it. The 10 and 10S are new (been sitting in music store for over 20 years) and are in town so I tried them. If I order the 10G to try it I will be out $65 if I have to send it back (because of shipping both ways, plus a trial fee). But maybe it is worth it to try it?
Thanks
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 15:05
I reckon the 10G is the more desriable of them all, but it's a shame you can't compare them all at the same time without having to shell out $65.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 15:10
When did they start lining the barrels on 10Gs with ebonite?
And do they still do this (on their current models)?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-26 15:14)
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Author: Joe B
Date: 2005-08-26 15:22
I have a 10G Bb with an 'M' serial number and noticed that the barrel was coated with ebonite. My understanding is that it was done to prevent cracking. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I noticed the Buffet wood oboes have the both top and bottom sections coated with an ebonite type lining. Buffet indicates it is to prevent cracking and gives a 10year warranty. I picked up a used 10G 63mm barrel and it did not have the ebonite lining. I don't feel it alters the sound at all.
Joe
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-08-26 15:27
I agree that the 10G A would probably be the best bet. The G series (for Gigliotti) typically had a better sound than the standard 10 series. But, you'll only know for sure by doing a side by side comparison with a tuner and someone to listen for a second opinion. That may not be possible, but it would help your decision.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 15:33
The Schreiber-built Buffet oboes have the poured Duracast bore lining - the same as the tenor and narrow bore (and the lower part of the ascending bore) of the butt joints in their bassoons.
This does prevent cracking in their oboes, but makes the lower joint socket weak as there's very little wood left at the top of the bottom joint once it's been reamed out wide enough to be lined (especially under the socket ring).
I only noticed the 10G barrels were lined when I cleaned them up before oiling them, and there was the tell-tale graininess of machined ebonite at the bottom of the sockets, but I did oil the remaining end grain in the sockets.
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-08-26 18:02
The best 10Gs are undoubtedly better than the run of the mill 10 or 10s.
BUT, the later 10G models, identifiable by the half crows foot under the bottom joint B/C/C# RHS side cluster, cut outs under the LHS side levers, and an adjustable C pad, are not the same. They generally lack colour and depth.
And, I have tried 10s that are really good. They are much less consistent than the early 10G (up until 1978/79), but when they're good, they are really very nice.
Beware intonation on the 10Gs. Some are great, some are not great at all. It is not unusual for chalumeau C and clarinet register c to be flat, and the altissimo to be excessively sharp (like early R13s in this last respect. The Y series seem most consistent from those I've tried.
Nick
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 18:18
Claricat,
Did they tell you the age or serial number of the 10G?
I did some work on another 10G (from the early '80s), not sure exactly why but the top joint didn't have a serial number stamped on it at all, the keywork was also badly fitted (the anchored pillar for the ring/G# key had the tenon end filed back to clear the tenon) and didn't have the tenon tip rings on both tenons as the lower joint had, and I thought if it was transplanted by Selmer it would at least have the serial number stamped (though wether or not they still add the * above the number on transplants as previous Selmers is another matter) - and the player bought the pair brand new, never having the top joint split on the Bb all the time he had the instrument for.
I didn't ask where he'd bought it from, maybe that would explain.
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Author: Nick H
Date: 2005-08-26 18:53
I have an E series 10G A that Mr. Gigliotti selected for me (used at the time). Although he didn't say he preferred specific model year (since they all have his name on them) he did really like the E series, and I do, too. The newer ones I have tried are very different than mine tonally, however I do think the intonation characteristics on most 10G's are a pleasant departure from any new R-13A you might try today.
Nick H
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-08-26 19:29
10Gs shouldn't have metal tipped tenons. This would have been added later if the clarinet had had lots of wear. Serial numbers ought to be marked on both joints too. Chris, the one you worked on fromn the early 80s doesn't sound as though it was right at all.
Nick
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-08-26 19:32
In answer to the earlier post on ebonite barrel inserts, even the first 10Gs had these. It is possible to get new ones these days without. Both can be very good. Variation on barrels that come with 10Gs is huge. I have restored 6: 2 have been great, 2 OK, 2 dogs.
Nick
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 19:41
Cheers Nick.
Now to add to the tenon tip conundrum, the A from this set has metal tips on the top joint and no tip on the bottom joint tenon - the complete opposite to the Bb.
I did see a set of Recitals on eBay in which only one of the set had metal tips, and the key pieces (especially the RH F/C and Ab/Eb touches) were of different eras.
And as for the barrels, the recent one I just worked on had a replacement barrel as the original one went oval. And it too was ebonite lined.
The new old stock 68mm barrel I bought recently for my set (of Series 9s) is a winner, the bore is completely smooth with no visible grain at all. Not bad for a barrel nearly 40 years old (it's got the milled out logo rather than the stamped one).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2005-08-26 19:57)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-26 21:28
I have a Y series and Z series.
The Z series have the reputation of being the best ever. That's from the quality control guy who did his mouthpieces for a while (Chris D.) when him and his wife were living with the Gigliottis.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-26 22:04
Tony got a set for me back in 1988 that I thought were unacceptable, so I sent them back.
I will not tollerate a Clarinet which is uneven or that has notes that are stuffy. (C#/G# and Bb register being the only slight exceptions to that).
One had a really stuffy low A - screw that!
Ended up getting a set of Prestige's instead.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 22:07
Stuffy low A? That sounds like a chimney collapse!
Strange. Didn't they undercut that tonehole or had you given up on it by then?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-26 22:10
Guess I really lucked out in finding my Z-series on the classifieds here. And it's phenominal (granted it's not much to look at at all with it's 6 pins and completely tarnished keys), but my Z-series plays better than anything else I've played. Definitely a keeper. As a matter of fact, I might even be inclined to put it against the best of GBK's 57 R13s (or is it 58 now? I lost count . . .) whenever I end up meeting him (whether it be up in NY or at a clarinetfest/sypmosium somewhere)
Of course HE'LL be the one playing both to test them out against each other. Cause Lord knows I can't do it justice.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-26 22:28
How do you keep that many Clarinet's humidified properly in the Winter??????
Cause home humidifiers surearen't enough
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