 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-08-23 21:29
Hello, just wondering if anyone has bought Alea's Bach cello suites for bass clarinet. How is the quality of the publication? How well does it work on bass clarinet?
Thanks.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-23 21:36
I know someone that's got these, unfortunately I only got to see the cover.
I wouldn't mind getting a copy of these if they do work well (I could try my powers of persuasion and borrow them off him), maybe even getting the original 'cello version and trying them on baritone sax as well.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-08-23 22:04
If you have a low-C bass, the original is great practice reading bass (and tenor) clef.
If you have a bass that goes to Eb, you're missing only the bottom concert C, and it's even better practice reading bass clef and transposing up a step.
A problem in #5 is that it's written for scordatura (altered) tuning. The notes for the top string are written to be fingered as if the string is tuned to A, but it's actually tuned to G. The cellist fingers the notes as written, and they come out a step lower. Thus, when the cello goes to the "A" (i.e., G) string, you read a step lower.
Also, #6 was written for a 5-string cello, with an extra high string tuned to E, so it goes into the stratosphere and is in alto and even soprano clef.
The Alea edition will undoubtedly put everything in treble cleff, and transposed, but a REAL bass clarinetist will play from the manuscript:
http://www.wimmercello.com/bachs1ms.html
http://www.wimmercello.com/bachs2ms.html
http://www.wimmercello.com/bachs3ms.html
http://www.wimmercello.com/bachs4ms.html
http://www.wimmercello.com/bachs5ms.html
http://www.wimmercello.com/bachs6ms.html
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-23 22:12
Shame all modern printed editions don't convey the same kind of liveliness that Bach's handwritten originals do!
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Author: Gardini
Date: 2005-08-24 00:24
I just bought them and have started to work on the first two suites. They seem fine. I also have my teacher's cello version with all his performance notes penciled in. I am using both to figure out the speed and accents. My brain just isn't quick enough anymore to read bass and transpose and play at the same time. I don't call myself a "real Bass clarinet player" I am an older guy that really loves the clarinet. I just started playing a couple of years ago. I plan to continue trying to learn to transpose, but for now I get to enjoy sitting down and enjoying playing the Bach - without smelling smoke comming out my ears.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-08-24 03:33
And that Delecluse edition is DIFFICULT. I've been trying to wrap my brain and fingers and embouchure and airstream around it for a while now, and am having a tough time! Of course, that's probably cause I don't play much classical these days...
Katrina
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Author: joannew
Date: 2005-08-24 07:08
I have the edition by Michael & Kimberly Davenport, written entirely in treble clef, for a low C bass clarinet. These are far more difficult than Rostropovich makes them sound!
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Author: Gardini
Date: 2005-08-25 18:32
I have been working on the first suite for a week or so. The notes and speed are not so bad, but breathing, phrasing and embouchure are tough for me as well. We are not playing cellos, so what are peoples feeling about approaching this on a Bass clarinet. My teacher suggest that I not try to copy a great cello player. I have Yo Yo's recording and I think it is beautiful. I hope to get ahold of other recordings as well. My teacher also suggested that the part would be better played on Bass clarinet in another key -reading the cello part in Bass clef and not transposing it. No one knows what Bach would think about this being played on an instrument that wasn't around in his day. It is a solo piece and probably not play for dancing??? My feeling is that I should attempt to honor both the composer and my chosen instrument. I am curious, how do people feel about this in general.
Thanks, Paul
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-26 11:08
I wouldn't play these as a study, meaning I won't play them in a strictly metronomic manner. Play them as a piece of music, not as a load notes.
As it's a solo piece, and also Baroque, take your time as you are free to play them as you feel, pushing and pulling the tempo around at your leisure. Listen to how some of the 'cellists perform these and mix and match the elements you like, most noticably they tend to hold onto the first semiquaver at the beginning of a phrase longer than the others that follow.
Looking at Bach's own handwritten version just shows what modern printed notation takes out - the human element.
I don't think Bach would mind what instrument they're played on (and I know several trombone players that play the 'cello suite - at least Bach would have heard trombones in his time, but if bass clarinets had been around back then I'm sure he'd have used them somewhere), I know of several pieces that have been played on various instruments other than the ones they were written for. And Bach himself wasn't a stranger to applying other composers music for different instruments.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-08-26 14:43
Paul -
You obviously can't play the suites like a cellist. The bass clarinet doesn't produce double, triple and quadruple stops, for one thing, and Bach constantly writes arpeggios that a cellist plays by simple string crossings, but which are very difficult on bass clarinet. Some of the effects -- shifting from one string to another on the same note -- simply can't be done on bass clarinet.
On the other hand, I think it's important to listen to the great cellists perform the music. I've learned as much about musicianship by listening to Casals, Yo Yo Ma, Kreisler, Szigeti, Cortot, Lipatti, McCormack and Fischer-Dieskau as by listening to clarinetists.
You can learn a tremendous amount from players whose style is out of favor, or even misconceived. No one today would play the suites like Casals. On the other hand, his musical projection is something every musician can emulate. Play the opening measure of his recording of Suite # 2 and then match his ease and insouciance on the bass clarinet. Play the opening bar of Suite # 3 and match his rolling intensity. At least that amount of copying is useful.
Bach used dance forms but obviously didn't expect the movements to be danced to. There's far too much decoration permit playing at a credible dance tempo. Casals played them as absolute music. Modern players -- Yo Yo Ma, Peter Wisplewey, Anner Bylsma -- do a mix, with as much dance affect as possible.
You play as musically as possible. Bach's greatness transcends the performance medium, but I've learned a lot by listening to cellists, even if I decide not to emulate them.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gardini
Date: 2005-08-26 16:45
Thanks Ken,
I'll order a copy of Casals. Do you know if a clarinetist has ever recorded these suites? They are so beautiful on the cello that I fear that we just can't do them justice on a clarinet. I heard them played on a trumpet the other day and didn't think that it worked at all. I told my wife after practice last night, that this is music that I could work on for the rest of my life.
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