 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-08-17 01:27
Just curious, has anyone played the latest model of Leblanc’s contra clarinets? i.e. body is painted black, except the bell and neck pipe.
What is your impression on their looks and playability? How do they compare with the earlier models (nickel plated and satin silver plated)?
Besides the cosmetic changes, any significant mechanical changes?
Thank you.
Willy
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-08-17 02:12
I wonder why they needed to paint them black?? One of the attractive features of these beasts is that they glimmer (almost look like a section of oil-refinery-pipping from a distance) ...
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-08-17 14:04
Gee, diz, everybody KNOWS that painting contras black will give them a DARKER sound -- it's obvious!
Besides, ever heard an oil refinery with good tone quality?
Q.E.D.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-08-17 14:24
I imagine the saxophone route (you see a lot of "colored" saxes these days) was done partially because it could be done, and partially because the black lacquer won't show tarnish like the silver horns do.
Most of these instruments are going to end up in very low maintenance intensity environments (read "schools") in the hands of folks that won't worry too much about what is usually a shared horn. (Hell, I don't spend the amount of time I should keeping my silver saxes and my bass clarinet polished, and I own them)
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-08-17 19:43
It's all about marketing. How can you increase sales (and maintain new production) of niche items in a flat or shrinking market? One tactic: Make inexpensive changes that generate consumer interest without degrading the product; e.g., paint it new colors. Has nothing to do with how it plays.
Just my opinion.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-17 19:53
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> One tactic: Make inexpensive changes that generate
> consumer interest without degrading the product;
> Has nothing to do with how it plays.
Just like the Vandoren 56 reeds ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2005-08-18 05:18
Good question, Willy. Regardless of the color, I wonder whether other things have changed.
I have played the black contra, but I have never played the older silver ones (not counting blowing on one for 1/2 hour 25 years ago.) The newer ones are made in Kenosha, right? And the older ones in France? I played the Bb contra in band last year and never got competent on it. Knowing that Leblanc has made them so long, I was surprised that my horn was so awkward. The left thumb platform was so far removed from the register key that I could not slide smoothly from something like written middle C to anything clarion. I was able to improve it slightly by adjusting both keys. Many other keys were awkward for me. Now, I assume that the basic design has not changed, but perhaps the workmanship is different? I thought a design so old would be pretty well fine tuned. The horn played ok for me, but again, I never was competent, and I had no one with more experience on contra to ask. The clarion was rather hard to sound, particularly around D and E.
I would be very interested in anyone else with experience on the older and the newer ones.
Wayne Thompson
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Max S-D
Date: 2005-08-18 07:01
I've played an older one. I don't really know how old, but it's been years since my public school has had the money or the commitment to music to buy a contra, so I'm guessing at least 25 years. The mechanics, to be blunt, suck. It's an incredibly clumsy instrument, and it's missing a few keys that exist on soprano and bass clarinets. There's no chromatic F# (throat tone), for example. These simply don't exist on the horn. It gets a nice tone, and altissimo is easy. Of course, altissimo on a contra puts you up into the throat tone range of a soprano clarinet, if you're good.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: larryb
Date: 2005-08-18 11:18
Don't you realize that millions of americans will now read this thread as they "google" John Roberts' Reagan Administration legal advise about policy in Nicaragua?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-08-18 16:25
Aspiring to play a contra-alto (which is really a true bass) or contra-bass (which is a true contrabass) clarinet like your R-13 is all well and good, and someone who is agile on one of these horns is something to watch and hear if you get the opportunity. However, like virtuosity displayed on the alto (which is really an abomination) clarinet, it's of limited utility to the "rest of the world".
I used to be able to navigate through the Mozart Bassoon Concerto pretty well on a Hovenagel "paperclip" horn, but only did so in the same spirit shown by someone who was teaching a squirrel to water ski. While I _could_ do it (except for some of the extreme altissimo stuff around high A and B in the cadenza in the first movement), it's not something that I _would_ do for anyone but myself.
The unfortunate thing about wind instruments is, while you cannot extend their compass any lower through any means save adding length and keywork to the tube (and, yes, as a bassoon and bari sax player I know all about pavillions de rechange and stuffing a foot in the bell, thank you very much), you can always navigate upwards through the agency of picking the right harmonics from alternate fingerings. This fundamental principle of physics has led all sorts of people astray.
The important thing is to recognize when "can" may not necessarily be appropriate in a given situation. Time spent swanning around above high C on a low harmony clarinet when not concealed behind closed doors might well be better spent "accidently" driving over any unattended alto clarinet cases...and then reversing, just to make sure...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2005-08-18 17:05
All right, Alphie. What's it all about?
You owe us an explanation for that photo. Does anything like this ever come up on eBay? I want one.
WT
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: steve
Date: 2005-08-18 17:36
Hello Everyone,
Just a quick trip to Leblancs website netted this info:
Specifications
Key: BBb (range to low Eb)
Bore: 30.02 mm (1.182")
Body material: ABS plastic with wood-grain finish
Pad cup style: Conical
Key/bell finish: Nickel-plated
Mouthpiece: 2559
Case: Deluxe wood-shell, one-section
Warranty: Limited 7-year warranty on joint cracking and breakage
Hence the reason it is black. And secondly, to qoute Glenn:
Author: GBK (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: 2005-08-17 19:53
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> One tactic: Make inexpensive changes that generate
> consumer interest without degrading the product;
> Has nothing to do with how it plays.
Just like the Vandoren 56 reeds ...GBK
Glenn, the Rue Lepic 56 reeds, to clarify, are a revolutionary design in clarinet reeds. The file cut was removed and the reed has a conical shape with a more narrow heel. The blank is a thicker blank with tip thickness of 0.11mm and a heel thickness of 3.25mm. They are also packaged in a humidity balanced, sealed box. These advancements in design and package have everything to do with how they play offering the artist yet another choice to taylor their own unique, individual sound.
Everyone, let me know if you'd like more information.
Steve
sbaughman@vandorenusa.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kel
Date: 2005-08-18 17:44
I can't quite decide if those are indeed ultrasubcontrabase clarinets, or if they're early experiments in anti-aircraft artillery. Either way, they'd probably achieve the same results.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DressedToKill
Date: 2005-08-18 18:06
I haven't, but I'm dying to. I actually rather like the look. (And in my line of work, looks are everything, dammit! *grin*)
I believe you are referring to the Vito contra, Steve, not the LeBlanc Paris metal contras.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-08-18 18:42
Gee, the description of the Rue Lepic reed seems very reminiscent of the old Olivieri reeds -- no file cut, narrower heel, conical shape...."revolutionary" indeed..........see an earlier thread about "retro".
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-18 20:33
Steve,
I'm quite aware of the dimensions and packaging of the Vandoren 56 reeds.
I've tried them and even written an extensive review on these pages.
But one fact still remains -
It's made with the same cane as all the other Vandoren clarinet reeds.
BTW - The Vandoren 56 reeds were clearly a response by Vandoren to the success and growing market share captured by the Gonzalez FOF reeds.
So the "revolutionary design in clarinet reeds" you speak of is basically a Gonzalez FOF cut clarinet reed with Vandoren cane ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-08-21 11:10
Terry,
consider listening to the real bass clarinet players of this world (Horak, Bok Sparnaay, Guns,...)
High C is far from a waist of time.
Ok it needs a 'little' more practice, but for those die hard bass players that want to do more than just playing first beat in a band, it's worth the investment.
It least I keep practicing with the doors open,
Peter
Post Edited (2005-08-21 16:56)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-08-21 11:32
Have they fitted a side F# chromatic key (RH side key opening the tonehole at the same level as the thumb hole) to these Leblanc contras yet?
Not that I've played many of them (just the one) and the utilitarian keywork made things awkward.
In time the black paint will have the opposite effect of the plated ones - they'll get lighter with age.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-08-21 22:21
Alphie - very impressive pic ... but what the heck is it?
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-08-21 22:51
Diz, the answer to that you can find in the thread "Old pictures".
Alphie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-08-22 02:03
"consider listening to the real bass clarinet players of this world (Horak, Bok Sparnaay, Guns,...)
High C is far from a waist of time.
Ok it needs a 'little' more practice, but for those die hard bass players that want to do more than just playing first beat in a band, it's worth the investment."
Read my comments again. I know that it _can_ be done. The main question is whether or not it _should_ be done, and certainly if it should be done in a performance context outside of some sort of instrumental freak show.
First, my bona fides:
I've played bass clarinet since the mid-1950's, quite a bit of that time for money. I currently own three of the things (two Selmer pro horns and a Selmer USA 'lifeboat' that's currently out on loan to my lead tenor player). I learned to play clarinet on an old Albert system bass clarinet (Buffet, and a wonderful horn). I'd estimate that I've played over half of the notes, choked out during my lifetime spread over seven different decades, on one form of bass or another. I don't claim to be a contra-clarinet specialist, but I've spent enough time on them to know the good, the bad, and the downright ugly. While I've spent a small portion of all that playing time locked into concert band situations, most of it has been in commercial stuff (shows and the like, dance music) and in college/university and community orchestras. In short, I'm not a stranger to things bass clarinet.
Now, for the comment:
As I pointed out, I used to travel way up the range on the bass clarinet (i.e., way above high C) all of the time when doing covers of the Mozart Bassoon Concerto, and that part of the compass is still available to me this day when I both have the time and have the inclination to take the bass out of the box.
But, like most others who have played the bass clarinet, most of the time I've been playing has been down below the G above the staff. It's a tone color instrument, and not designed for flashy solo work in the ultra high registers. What the majority of writing for the horn has emphasized has been the rich, "bass clarinet as bass clarinet" range.
In any event, the point is not that you can reach the extreme notes on a contra-alto or contra-bass (which you can, with a well-regulated horn and a lot of time to figure out the idiosyncrasies of a given instrument), but rather that choking out a C above high C is rather pointless when you have the same note on a number of other instruments, all of the clarinet family, where it is of superior timbre and "maneuverability" (for the want of a better term).
And, just because a soloist (jazz or otherwise) can flip a bass clarinet around in the altissimo (as many of us can) doesn't mean that the same utility will be obtained if you place a contra-bass horn in their hands. I felt that the Hovenagel "paper clips" (with their tighter keywork overall) were roughly comparable to a professional level bass clarinet, but even then the fingering chart was largely "unmapped" when I was using them (back in the 1960's), or at least was not available to me.
As for the other horns, I have never felt comfortable on the straight body (non-metal) contra horns. Partially, this was a function of the horns being used (I have never, outside of the Clarifest showrooms, even touched an "as new" thick bodied contra horn). That alone mitigates against them working very well.
But, I once had a contra-alto (Selmer wood body Eb) for a month when doing a musical (On The Twentieth Century), and as I was being paid to play the damn'd thing, I had it taken in for an overhaul. Despite the tender loving care given the horn, I never had good luck up in the altissimo register. Of course, venting may have been the problem and I just didn't have it long enough to experiment with it the way I would have had it been mine and mine alone.
(The Hovenagel horns that I used belonged to a high budget secondary school in the Saint Louis area (Horton Watkins High School, aka Ladue High School), and they were maintained in first class condition. Sadly, this is not the case elsewhere.)
In many ways, it's like performing The Flight Of The Bumble Bee on a tuba: a cute idea, and something that those of us who play the horns can appreciate for the feat that it is, but not exactly the sort of music that hoi polloi are lining up to hear performed.
Hell, next you'll be encouraging people to major in performance on the alto clarinet...
"It least I keep practicing with the doors open"
I don't. It's not very considerate to those around you who may have something else in mind beyond clarinet playing...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BelgianClarinet
Date: 2005-08-22 16:22
Hi Terry,
I get your point, maybe I'm just too enthousiastic about the perfect new bass I'm playing - not a contra (yet) , and too much taken away bij the incredible possibilities this instrument has (far beyound what most people think a bass clarinet can do, when they only hear it in a band).
Alto is indeed a different story, and unless I get very rich (how ?) I'll never buy one. Played one though several years ago, a bad yamaha.
And thanks for caring for my neighbors, but I only dare leaving the doors open because most of the time there is noboby around !, I'm not that good ;o)
Peter
BTW about the color black of the CBass. Isn't it just done to look like a real wooden bass ? Which is funny, because the great looking C-Bass of Selmer is much lighter colored.
Post Edited (2005-08-22 17:16)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
