 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: missclarinetist
Date: 2005-08-16 06:34
Hi all, I just realized why my clarinet is flat. I'm using a Vandoren 5RV Lyre Series 13 which makes the mouthpiece at 440 while I'm using an E11 built to pitch at 442. Does anybody know how to correct this problem or do I have to buy a new mouthpiece?
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-08-16 06:57
from what i understand about tuning, the fact that you are flat probably has little to do with the set up you described. if your clarinet was built to 442, it should play a little bit sharp actually, not flat. the 13 series vandoren, which is tuned to 440, should actually bring the pitch of the E11 down and kind of even out the sharpness making your instrument closer to being in tune. i have never once heard a person play flat on an E11, probably because they were designed to prevent the flatness that comes along with poor breath support and a weak embouchure that most students have. the 13 series mouthpiece was created to keep the pitch lower on, i believe, the standard R13 built to 440. so if your E11 that was built to 442 is flat, then it makes me wonder if something else could be causing it.
the problem with being flat probably has more to do with incorrect tongue position and a slow air stream. i had that problem after i switched from sax to clarinet and it made playing the clarinet in band hard since i was flat. i ended up buying a really short barrel. then i went to a different teacher, fixed my tongue position, and learned how to focus the air stream properly and my flatness went away.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-08-16 09:19
check these things......
1) are your lips "against" your teeth or "pouting" slightly
2) are your upper teeth on the top of the mouthpiece?
3) is your lower lip "bent outwards" (see also #1)
4) are your cheeks puffed
5) is your setup so light that if you play middle C and push with the jaw slightly the tone cuts off (you should have to push reasonably hard to cut off the sound)
and finally (as Clarisax suggests) is your tongue low in the mouth, making the airstream slow.
- it should be like "shhhhhhhoes" (or tchuess if you speak German)
- not "awwwww" as in "yawn"
these factors would account for 95% of the flat playing i encounter with my students- and 1-5 are pretty easily fixed.
keep playing the good tunes
donald
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-08-16 13:13
i use 13 series mpcs to get my E-11 students down to 440, and sometimes we also need a longer barrel.
i'd add to donald's list - how much lower lip are you taking in - part of the pink of the lip should be showing , swallowing the lower lip causes intonation issues
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-08-16 21:53
Are other people also flat on your particular instrument (with their mouthpiece)? Or are you flat on theirs (with your mouthpiece)? Could rule out 'the instrument' at least depending on these answers.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-08-17 00:02
missclarinetist
Before tuning, allow the instrument to reach "operating" temperature by playing it or blowing air through it. A cold instrument will play flat.
Alexi's suggestion (above) for diagnosis makes good sense IMO.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: davedmg
Date: 2005-08-17 02:01
If you are a new player, your reeds might be too soft. The Van Doren website recommends a 3 to 4 Van Doren Traditional reed for the 5RV Lyre mouthpiece. There are various reed brand comparison charts on the web if you use a non-Van Doren reed. -- Dave
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Author: missclarinetist
Date: 2005-08-18 08:21
Thanks for the information! Now with this setup, I'm always confused about tuning with the barrel. Do I pull my barrel up to make it in tune or should I lower my barrel?
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-08-18 13:18
You make the clarinet longer (pull out) to make it play flatter. That may require pulling out the middle joint as well.
Since your clarinet already plays flat, you may need to buy a shorter barrel for it.
Have you tried the suggestions posted above? What were the results?
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Author: kenb
Date: 2005-08-18 21:01
Yes, you pull out to go lower - just as if you were pulling someone's leg.
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Author: Ken Mills
Date: 2005-08-27 22:36
Dear Missclarinetist; Yes I agree that your reeds may be too soft. Two mouthpieces of the same facing could still require different strength reeds depending on deepness of the chamber around the window near the tip. If the surface opposite the window is closer to the window near the tip area then you can use a stronger reed. Look at those Vandoren mpcs. And of course glass mpcs all have a more shallow chamber too because the wall is necessarily thicker. It has to do with the force of the air stream against the reed to drive a stronger reed to get those high notes better as well. Ask sax players about that. But my clarinet is no peashooter too. A former shopper, stay with it until you get it in your hands, Ken
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