 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: noahbob
Date: 2005-08-12 22:52
My band teacher makes all of the clarinet players play on a b45. I tried to explain to him that there different mouthpieces are made for different mouthes. Last year when he pulled this trick on me i just told him that i cant play on a b45 and i went and proved it to him. I would just like to know how many of you play on a b45 mouthpiece and what you think i could tell my clarinet section? Also how many of your band directors have forced a b45 mouthpiece on you?
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-08-12 22:57
I play a B45 and love it.
But--
Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.
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Author: RHuch
Date: 2005-08-12 23:17
All clarinet students in the band program where I went to school were (possibly still are) required to use a B45, by a band director who is also a fine clarinetist. I don't think you'll find many educators here who agree with such an approach, myself included. There are so many fine, inexpensive mouthpieces out there that are well suited to a young, developing clarinetist. Clark Fobes, Jewel and Hite come to mind immediately, but there are certainly more. The B45 is, of course, a fine mouthpiece, and not particularly expensive either, but in my humble opinion, it is foolish to attempt to unify an entire ensemble’s equipment, especially mouthpiece and reed selection, since there are so many individual factors. I had much more success when I got of the Vandoren mouthpiece bandwagon, but to each his or her own. On the positive side, this policy helps eliminate some of the horrible mouthpieces that often come with new or rental instruments.
As for what to tell your clarinet section, the answer is probably nothing. You can certainly talk to them one on one and tell them what you use, but you will probably make your band director fairly upset if you try to undermine his authority. He may feel he has a perfectly good reason for this B45 policy. You could ask him to clarify why this policy is in place, assuming you do so respectfully and non-confrontationally.
Good Luck.
RH
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Author: jangjiman
Date: 2005-08-12 23:17
If you have a close minded teacher like that, then you should get a new teacher. If he just suggested it, then it would be a different story.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-08-13 01:53
You can't usually just get a new band teacher.
My suggestion is rather more subversive. I like Vandoren B40's quite a bit, so if I were in the same situation, I'd simply scratch off the "0" and draw in a "5" in gold enamel.
I did a classical saxophone workshop once on an Otto Link tenor mouthpiece. I took a black marker and covered up the white engraving on the piece so it wouldn't stand out as a "jazz" mouthpiece. Not only did it work like a charm, but one of the workshop leaders gave me a nice compliment on my sound, then asked me to tell the others what kind of gear I was using.
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Author: noahbob
Date: 2005-08-13 02:18
Thankyou all for your advice, I have tried to ask ask him to clarify why this policy is in place, his answer was basicaly that he wants a "unified band", meaning all the same mouthpieces on every instrument, same uniform, same music folder, same, same, same, etc.... So he is pretty commited to the b45 theory. RHuch, you said your teacher was a fine clarinitist, not to knock your teacher at all but I've found that most proffesionals play on 5rv, M15, or M13 mouthpieces so they can play on size 3 1/2 - 5 reed strengths to achieve a broader sound when playing in the orchestras, at least thats what I've found so far. But every clarinet player is different, and that is my point, every clarinet player should have a choice on what mouthpiece he/she would like to use, not be forced into a mouthpiece that may or maynot be good for him/her. After all that is why Vandoren markets over 10 varieties of mouthpieces.
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2005-08-13 02:22
hm. Get an M30 and cleverly disguise it as a b45. It is possible, is it not? Besides, does he check everyone's mouthpiece everyday? I once made it through a rehearsal with no reed on hand, and my band director didn't notice. He even made us play by ourselves as a section, and he still didn't notice. It is possible.
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Author: RHuch
Date: 2005-08-13 02:54
noahbob, I'm glad I could help, even if only a little.
I do caution you to avoid the "professionals play..." mentality. While many great musicians play the Vandoren models you mention, I would be very hesitant to say most. It's not the equipment that matters anyway; it's the end result which people should be most concerned with.
As has been said countless times on this board before, if people practiced as much as they worried about what mouthpiece the Principal Clarinet of such-and-such an orchestra was playing, there would a lot more quality players. It is unwise to judge another clarinetist (or any musician) on his or her equipment, because it is in no way a measure of their abilities, and a great musician can make the worst equipment sound unbelievable.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-13 03:25
The last time a band director told me that all his students were required to play B45's, I asked him if all the members of his marching band wore the same size shoes.
After all, wouldn't they march better if all the shoes were the identical size?
He quickly got the point and dropped the ridiculous B45 requirement...GBK (a retired band director)
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2005-08-13 04:01
*giggles* ah man, GBK
Having a director like that is a bad situation, personally I tend to do my best to alter there opinions and fail that, go aroudn them if at all possible.
If he isn't a clarinet player and you really want to make a point, you can always ask him to play w/ you if he knows so much... not such a good idea, but wouldn't we all like to do that sometimes
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Author: Marcuin
Date: 2005-08-13 14:35
I learn i music shool in Poland. Here everybody play on b45 lyre profil. It's best mouthpiece what I ever play.
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Author: noahbob
Date: 2005-08-13 15:18
Gbk, great story, that is hilarious. I wish I could pul that maneuvor on my Band director. RHuch I agree with you totaly about judging players on their equipment, I never do. But the only point Im trying to make is that we should have the freedom to play on whatever we want to. I play on an M15 mouthpiece and he doesn't even know, i dont try to "disguise" it, that would be ridiculus. Thank you all for your help and your stories.
Noah
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2005-08-13 15:28
When I was in High School 25 years ago, many band directors strongly
recommended the Selmer HS** This mouthpiece like the B45 had a medium open facing. (I was somewhat of a rebel, and used a Portnoy BP02 which was very similar to the B45)
One of the problems which has been mentioned in other threads is that today's B45 can be quite variable in its playabilty, so even if a whole section is using the B45, there is a good chance that each mouthpiece is quite different which defeats the bands directors original intention.
Now I'm not sure why these relatively open facings gained so much favor in the student market. The only thing I can think of is that they project well, so they are well suited to concert band where the clarinets are competing with a large trumpet section.
The only problem is if you use a stronger reed like a 3 1/2, they become stuffy if you are not using enough air. (which is the case of many H.S. students)
These days, the Hite Premier and Fobes Debut have thankfully come into favor with many teachers. Their medium closed facings are much more suited to stronger reeds, and IMO yield a much more classical tone.
The 5RV lyre which I currently use is also similiar and seems to provide a good balance of projection vs tone.
In the end, picking a mouthpiece is a very personal decision that depends on many factors. I think a good teacher should try various combinations with their students to try and find the setup that works best for them.
Steve
Post Edited (2005-08-13 15:40)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-13 15:59
Steve B touches on an important point about band directors being brainwashed (brain dead?) about the B45 mouthpiece mentality.
Far too many band directors have not strayed from their college 101 Instrumental Techniques course, when they were all told about the "recommended" mouthpieces for the different instruments.
The big 4:
Bach 7C for trumpet, Bach 12C for trombone, Meyer 7M for alto sax and B45 for clarinet.
It's about time some of these directors took a refresher course, or better yet, tried to play a few of the above instruments ...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-13 16:07
I suspect nearly every school band has been subjected to this "problem". IMHO, it is just has to be a Vandoren mp [for an undisclosed reason] there are better ones available and should be at least tried. VD mp costs are much greater than the good student mps, Fobes, Hite, and from some other of our BB members, not highly advertised, and many students' parents are hard pressed for school-opening funds. Just my opinions, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-14 16:54
Being able to prove you can't play on a B45 proves nothing. I don't think you'll make any headway with your teacher until you learn how to deal with authority. Your teacher is trying to do his job, maybe you can help him/her by being cooperative. There's more than one way to be cooperative.
Bob Draznik
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-08-15 03:23
one of the band directors where i have students has it down a specific reed brand and strength to go with a specific mouthpiece.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Laurie
Date: 2005-08-15 04:56
My clarient professor last semester recommonded that all his students play on a BG Lig and a Richard Hawkins mouthpiece. I was playing on a handmade Dan Johnston that i LOVED but i figured i would try something new.
After playing a week on this, I found the Hawkins was too open. I had NO control and it produced a much brighter tone then that i desire. I swithced back to my DJ.
My professor ranted and raved about my progress and tone quality instantly, since i had bought the hawkins. He didn't know i switched back to my old mouthpiece a week after i bought it. After three months he finally realzied i had switched back to my Johnston.
Moral of the Story: Do whats right for you. A setup that works for your teacher may not work for you. B45 was 'required' for my HS band also... but i told my teacher, I like the mouthpiece im playing on ( Charlie Bay @ the time ) and im not swithching. He agreeded that the tone I was producign was great and not to switch.
I like GBK's answer.
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-08-15 15:40
In the director's defense, I can understand where he's coming from... sorta. So many players will simply use the absolutely horrible mouthpiece that comes with their clarinet. In high school, this could be especially bad as probably half (or more) of the players are on a plastic student clarinet. I myself played a yamaha beginner horn until 11th grade when I lost it...
Anyway, since these players are all also fairly young, any of the Vandoren mouthpieces on the B45 level are going to be an improvement for them unless they're already using something (as noahbob seems to be). One of the high schools I teach for has all the players on 5RVs, except for a few students who I have talked to about different mouthpieces. Is it the best for all those students? Probably not. But, it is quite an improvement from what they came with.
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
www.SouthBayWinds.com
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-15 16:09
GoatTnder wrote:
> Anyway, since these players are all also fairly young, any of
> the Vandoren mouthpieces on the B45 level are going to be an
> improvement for them
If you are saying that beginners should be put on B45 mouthpieces - I strongly disagree.
The B45 is a TERRIBLE beginner's mouthpiece. With a tip opening of 1.195 mm, it is far too resistant for those just starting to play. Many beginners get frustrated by using this mouthpiece and have had negative experiences with learning the clarinet solely because of it.
Why band directors and teachers continually recommend it as a beginner's mouthpiece is a mystery.
As we have said NUMEROUS times before, the Fobes Debut, Hite Premiere, Yamaha 4C and even the Gennusa GE*S are all reed friendly, low resistant mouthpieces suited for young students...GBK
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2005-08-15 18:30
Merlin wrote:
>My suggestion is rather more subversive. I like Vandoren B40's quite a bit, so if I were in the same situation, I'd simply scratch off the "0" and draw in a "5" in gold enamel.
This may be a good idea. When C trumpet started to be sold, symphonic players changed their bells to B-flat trumpets' ones to cheat conductors who did not like C trumpets. Same story.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-08-15 18:40
The director is wanting a specific "sound" from his clarinet section. So, the easiest way to get it is to have everyone play the same mouthpiece equipment. If you go to him and ask to play with the set-up you prefer and he likes your sound, he may ok your mouthpiece. Or, ask him if he can help you get the b45 to work. You may need to change your reed strength and ligature.
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-08-15 18:44
>If you are saying that beginners should be put on B45 mouthpieces - I
>strongly disagree.
No, that's not quite what I was saying. I mean that when it comes to the point where the standard mouthpiece that comes with a beginner clarinet is holding the player back (as it probably would for even your average high school player), it's time to move on. And, moving on to a B45 is not the worst choice in the world. By the 'fairly young' comment, I meant that their embouchure has not developed to the point that only a certian shape mouthpiece will work for them (i.e. adjustment to a different one should be fairly easy since they're still an open book).
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
www.SouthBayWinds.com
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-15 18:57
GoatTnder wrote:
> By the 'fairly young' comment, I meant
> that their embouchure has not developed to the point that only
> a certian shape mouthpiece will work for them
> adjustment to a different one should be fairly easy
> since they're still an open book
Even more of a reason to avoid the B45 for beginners.
Embouchure formation and blowing resistance should be carefully monitored during the first few years of playing. A mouthpiece which causes students to overblow to fight the reisistance of a fairly wide tip opening (in this case 1.195mm) should be avoided until later when muscles and diaphragm have developed...GBK
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-08-15 19:47
Hello,
Also, VanDoren's published measurements and the measurements that they actually are when they come off the assembly line may be two very different things. Therefore, a clarinet section with all B45s, for instance, may have tip openings with ranges from medium close to very open. There goes the similar equipment theory.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-08-15 20:05
>>>If you are saying that beginners should be put on B45 mouthpieces - I strongly disagree.
The B45 is a TERRIBLE beginner's mouthpiece. With a tip opening of 1.195 mm, it is far too resistant for those just starting to play.redwine wrote:
I agree with GBK. For my first year playing clarinet, I thought the B45 was hopeless. I just couldn't use it.
Now, I quite like it. It has a certain 'something' that my beginner's 5RV doesn't have.
SOund like you need a new Band director.
Can't you all just fire him?
Steve
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-08-15 20:06
Blasphemy, Ben! How could a reputable company like Vandoren publish detailed specifications for each of their mouthpieces but allow the actual products to differ significantly from the advertised specs? Why, that's fraud! I'm gonna write my Congressman..........
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-08-16 03:12
Find the best B45 you can get. Try as many as you can. That mouthpiece should be great for highschool band. If you want something different and have the money .....have it refaced by an expert. If it really bothers you to play it then just play it in band and use your preferred mouthpiece the rest of the time. Don't harbour any grudges about having to play this mouthpiece in band or it will be destructive. You should pick your battles and this probably is not a good one. John
Freelance woodwind performer
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