 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2005-08-13 05:47
Hi guys. This is one for experienced Eb players and techs I suppose. Since getting my R13 Eb a couple of years ago (It was picked out at IMS and sent to my teacher at the time for me) I have always had trouble with the long notes just over the break. For example, last year playing the Daphnis et Chloe 2nd suite I could always get the technical work, but quite often the long notes around B C C# and the Eb would not want to speak. I always thought its just me, I need more air and to do more practice on it. I got by and did the concerts (we played Daphnis on tour in Europe about 5 times or so) and recently that same excerpt popped up again in a youth orchestra audition I went for. The excerpt was all the twiddly bits in the opening of the 2nd suite (sunrise I think?). I could get the runs without the long B's and Eb's but in the other runs they did not want to speak no matter how much i blow the thing. They would speak when I play them as individual notes, but not when I am playing over the break. The annoying thing is that I can get all the finger work even and everything, and can play the excerpt with no worries on Bb or A clarinet. I thought maybe the keys were moving too far or the pads were opening too high so I went and had it all tightened up a bit and it made little difference. Although the Bb and A excerpts went well, I felt like a total idiot in this audition not being able to get half the notes out on Eb....it would sort of start, stop, start etc etc. I know of someone who wants to buy it off me and I am considering it as a last resort unless there is something you guys can advise me to look into with this instrument. It has fairly decent tuning and even sound so I will be annoyed at losing it...
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Author: mnorswor
Date: 2005-08-13 06:01
What about the throat A key? Does it seal well and is the tension on the spring heavy enough? Same for the throat A-flat. Also what about the pad just above the first ring on the right hand? You also may investigate what type of pads you have and possibly investigate others, though if they're skin or cork it should be just fine if checked over by a qualified repair tech. The last thing I'd check is the register tube. Is the tube sealed properly and is it the proper bore inside the tube.
Hope it helps,
Michael
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Author: woodwind650
Date: 2005-08-13 06:26
i would agree with the above mentioned. if you're certain that you're covering the tone holes with your fingers, etc.... then it's most likely a major leak or leaks somewhere. i would investigate with a reputable clarinet technician.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-08-13 12:08
ditto the above
another thing to look for are springs that are set "lighter" than on your soprano clarinet. If you are used to springs that are able to tolerate being lightly touched by fingers etc without opening this can cause a problem if ONE of your horns has lighter springs..... it's late at night for me, but i hope that makes sense.....
as an example- on my B flat i was able to touch the eflat/bflat side key without it opening.... ok, no problem- my right index finger didn't actually rest on the key, but would touch it every so often, however never enough to open the hole and cause a squeak etc.
when i got a new A clarinet Guy Chadash had done some work setting it up, and had set the spring tension lighter than on my B flat, so when my index finger lightly touched the eflat/bflat side key it would open and cause a squeak or momentarily delay the note..... Main keys i noticed this on were the throat keys and the side key described above- but also to some extent the banana keys and C#/G# key. While i did have a few keys re-tensioned, over all an awareness of the problem and more practise was the cure.
another thing to look out for
the throat A key has a flat spring that is seated in a metal sadle (don't know if that's what it's called, but i'm sure you can work out what i mean). Some techs put grease in the saddle to ensure smooth action, as the spring will possible be moving in the saddle.... ok
sometimes the "flat spring" is slightly too big and may intermitently "grab" on the saddle. I know this sounds unlikely, but it happens. Why it can happen one time and not another is just one of those annoying questions that has no easy answer.
this can cause a slight delay in the A key closing (which could make crossing the break a bit dodgy). I've seen this on TWO Buffet E flat clarinets (admitedly both old horns), but never on a pro level Bflat or A.
hope that this was helpful
you probably won the rugby
donald
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Author: Dee
Date: 2005-08-13 13:50
Another alternative problem is that the springs on your Eflat are set too stiff so that the keys don't close completely when you press the keys. One otherwise fine repair tech that I had in a previous location always adjusted them too stiff for me. He had a "gorilla grip" where I have a light touch. So I always checked those keys before leaving the shop and had him readjust them.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-13 14:01
The above quite well covers the "waterfront".. I have had some problems with "blow-opening" of the [large] Ab/Eb pad which interferes with the lower note's "speaking". As Gordon NZ has often said, its spring is short and, if at all weak, opens easily with strong attacks to C and B. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2005-08-13 14:14
Nick, when I first got my eflat it developed this same problem, see if you can get somebody to press on the Aflat/Eflat padcup to see if it is leaking. Mine had too weak of a sprng and it would blow open. Hope this helps, it should as this would explain why only B C and C# would be playing up.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-08-13 17:14
Does the problem occur even when somebody else is playing your instrument? If not, it could be that you have a hang up with #-keys due to the size of the instrument in spots like the opening of “Daphnis”, 5 #s I think. I once met someone who had the same problem with this and what happened in his case was that when going from E5 to B4 and similar spots where he had to play B4 with only the left pinky he got tense and accidentally opened RH3 just enough to create a small leak. We only realized this after I played the same thing and it didn’t happen to me. Check slowly for finger leaks again.
Alphie
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2005-08-13 17:54
Try closing off the right hand sliver key (alternate F#/B) with a bit of duct tape (taping the pad cup to the wood so the key won't open) and see if the notes over the break speak easier. If they do then your problem is you're bumping up against the sliver key, slightly opening it, thus creating a leak. Possible solutions: have your tech remove metal from the sides of the sliver key to make it thinner and less likely to get in the way; remove the sliver key and plug the tone-hole with cork; practice in this area of the horn taking particular care not to bump up against the sliver key.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-08-13 17:59
Hi,
IMHO Alphie has the right answer. I had the same type experience on eefer with the Morton Gould arrangement of The First Noel (which for the eefer is in a 5# a lot and lays right across the break). I believe the RH3 is the culprit finger that is coming just a little uncovered. When this happened to me, the little beast would just stop playing.
I have come to the realization that I have fingers that are just a tad too large and/or I am not making friends very well with the ergonomics of the instrument. I am trying to find my eefer a new home as we speak.
HRL
PS The instrument was perfect having just been repadded and then tweaked by some very well known and wonderful techs.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-13 18:10
Robert Small wrote:
> Possible
> solutions: have your tech remove metal from the sides of the
> sliver key to make it thinner and less likely to get in the
> way; remove the sliver key and plug the tone-hole with cork;
> practice in this area of the horn taking particular care not to
> bump up against the sliver key.
Another solution, which I like better, is to wedge a small, thin piece of cork under the sliver key to prevent it from opening.
Some Eb clarinets have a cramped feeling, even for those with normal sized fingers, thus the sliver key accidentally opening is a common problem ...GBK
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2005-08-13 18:19
Yes a thin wedge under the key works well and can be quickly removed if one encounters a passage where the sliver key is needed. My eefer is a Patricola which has a short and thin sliver key (very good design) that does not get in the way. On my D clarinet (a Buffet) I closed off the sliver key with a bit of cork under the key.
Post Edited (2005-08-13 18:24)
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2005-08-13 19:23
Other possibilities: The spring on the Ab/Eb key (right hand little finger) is often too weak to seal the pad. Have someone hold the key down while you play the other notes. If the 3rd finger on the right hand touches the fork F-sharp key even slightly it can cause a squeak.
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