 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-08-13 01:43
For example, when you play/practice a piece, do you say the notes in your head? That's what I'm doing, as I observe myself.. Is it good or bad?
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-08-13 01:57
I don't see any harm... gets you familiar with solfege and harmonic function. It's somewhat impractical in just about anything I play though... too many notes, too much chromaticism. If I could do solfege that fast, musicianship classes would have been significantly easier.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-13 02:09
My fourth and fifth graders do it. They don't even realize they're doing it, because they've been taught that way all through school. Amazing what the young brain can do.
Sue Tansey
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Author: psychotic lil clarinet girl (don't as
Date: 2005-08-13 02:14
I just started choir last year, and I noticed myself doing it a little bit. However, I find it easier to think of the notes as they actually are, because you never know when they're going to switch keys on you. ^_^
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2005-08-13 03:48
It sounds like a very good idea, and when I teach youngins I will likely encourage this, but I don't do it
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-08-13 12:30
I do something different, but similar. Somewhere in the back of my mind I visualize the shape of the scale on the piano keyboard.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-08-13 14:05
If I'm playing a song to which I know the words, I often sing them along with playing, it does help me in phrasing ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BassClarinetGirl
Date: 2005-08-14 05:57
Being a writer, I've been known to make up my own words for pieces I'm playing... when someone hears me sing it to myself, they often say "those aren't the right words!" I know, but I don't care. :-D
Becca
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-14 16:29
Only when I sing that song from Sound of Music. This question, to me, is very complex in its simplicity. I learned my "Do-re-me's" in grade school music class. Never knew what it meant or even why we were doing it.
Only in the past couple of years have I even started to learn about music theory. And only last week learned....or think I've figured out.....what the heck it's all about. I'll leave it to someone more knowledgeable to address the subject. As often the case maybe I'm just digging too deeply into the question.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-08-15 15:03
I believe this is something that you'll have to overcome once you move into more difficult music. I don't have time to do that with 32nd notes and difficult keys. In fact, I don't ever remember doing do re mi because the notes have letter names: g, c, d, f, etc.
Maybe your mind is faster than mine (it wouldn't take much) and you can do that while you read the music, but I certainly can't do so.
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-15 15:24
I think the little ones can do it because they're playing notes within one scale. They don't have any accidentals and they have been taught the that the beginning of the scale is "do". So when they learn their notes, they make the association automatically without effort.
Sue Tansey
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Author: claclaws
Date: 2005-08-15 15:41
Brenda,
You're so right when you said
>>I believe this is something that you'll have to overcome once you move into more difficult music. I don't have time to do that with 32nd notes and difficult keys. In fact, I don't ever remember doing do re mi because the notes have letter names: g, c, d, f, etc.
I don't do do re mi either when the piece is too fast.
One clarification: I never learned to call the notes with letter names. In Korean schools , 'do re mi..' is the so-called 'note names': that's what music teachers teach when they make kids sing by notes. It's much later, apart from the school curriculum, like when you learn the chord instrument (such as guitar) that you start to learn 'C maj, E min..' etc.
Lucy Lee Jang
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-08-15 16:08
Which brings up a couple of questions - does "do" refer only to the first note in any scale or to, let's say, C? Is a D scale the same as a "re" scale? (Sheet music for Bb clarinet is often said to be for a Si b clarinet. Why Si and not Ti?)
We have plans to move to Central America where I'm planning to teach and they don't use the letters either. I think only North America uses the letter names for notes but I could be wrong. Are they used anywhere else?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-08-15 16:22
Brenda wrote:
> Which brings up a couple of questions - does "do" refer only to
> the first note in any scale or to, let's say, C? Is a D scale
> the same as a "re" scale?
Google for Solfedge and moveable do ...
Si and Ti are interchangeable syllables in Solfedge.
> We have plans to move to Central America where I'm planning to
> teach and they don't use the letters either. I think only
> North America uses the letter names for notes but I could be
> wrong. Are they used anywhere else?
Letter names? You mean A, B, C, etc.? All of Europe & Asia at least ...
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-15 17:20
There are two systems for "solfege", which is the name for singing music using syllables to represent positions of notes in the scale. It can be done two ways - either 1) with "do" always equal to C, in which a "d" is always "re", or 2) with moveable "do", as Mark indicated. In a moveable "do" system, the tonic note of the key you are in is "do", so if you were in Eb, Eb would be "do".
At the risk of repeating myself, it is amazing how easily young children pick this up and just go with it. It is taught in conjunction with hand signs with represent the notes of the scale. The kids can sing anything with hand signs you show them, and vice versa. It's great because they don't know this is "hard", and this leads to a quick understanding of the concept and sound of intervals. That way, when you have a trumpet player blowing an open note and not knowing whether he's got a C or a G, you can remind him that the notes are supposed to be "do" and "so" or, a 5th apart.
Have I got you confused yet?
Sue Tansey
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-08-15 17:39
European conservatories push solfege hard, and people who use it swear by its virtues.
Coming up in the U.S., I knew that it existed, but found that I could hear intervals and sing accurately simply by miming the appropriate clarinet fingerings.
For movable DO users: when the music modulates to a new key, do you shift DO to the new tonic? If so, when do you shift, particularly when the music is continually shifting key?
And if not, what's the advantage over having DO always be C?
Ken Shaw
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-15 18:37
If the key signature of the music actually changed, yes, you would shift DO to the new tonic. I think we're talking about music which can be sung in this context. You wouldn't change DO if there was a temporary modulation within the music.
The advantage of moveable do is that you always know where your tonal center is. It does make logical sense, although it can be tricky when you first think about it.
Sue Tansey
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-08-15 20:36
OK, so this means when I visit next time I'll have to track down the director of the local youth orchestra and find out how things are done there.
In that part of the world there are so few trained musicians. Public schools concentrate on Grades 1-6 and it's amazing what the kids learn in those early years, but music or even singing isn't taught except in private schools. Lately more and more young people are moving on to secondary school but it's still expensive for parents. In that particular town the only music education is through the youth orchestra. The town is particularly proud of it, since it's passed its 11th anniversary with some measure of success.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-08-15 21:38
I, for one, have always been pitiful at solfege. When I sing or play I see the intervals. For example, today I was playing through the Mozart Concerto movement 1 and in my head it was like:
C major arpeggio, now it switches to a G major arpeggio, oh! here comes a chromatic run, now diminished chords, etc. etc. Also intervals will go through my head.
Solfege has always been too hard for me to do fast and at school I tend to drop out when they ask us to do solfege and I start to sing "doo" on everything. At our school, we only use solfege for sightreading our sightreading exercises. We also use moveable do-that way you'll always know that the major arpeggio will be Do-Mi-Sol-Do.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-16 15:57
So.....are there different pitch pipes?
Bob Draznik
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-16 17:01
Joe Allard taught me to hear the pitches in my head before playing them. So I do that, but no solfege - hated it in school, still hate it now.......
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-16 19:56
So are there different pitch pipes?
1. Yes
2. You don't need one - a C is a C is a C, it's all in what syllable it represents.
Those of you who don't understand solfege, think of something simple like "Hot Cross Buns". The tune is "mi-re-do, mi-re-do. do-do-do-do re-re-re-re- mi-re-do. If it's in C, then it's E-D-C, etc. If it's in any other key, the notes change accordingly, but the solfege syllables are the same.
I remember back to college solfege and what got some students is the way they dump you into upper-level sight reading, assuming some intro to solfege in the public school music system. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen. I can still remember my solfege teacher and the book we used - Lavignac. Does that bring back any nightmares for anybody? If you hadn't been exposed to simple solfege techniques, that little book would scare anybody to death. Solfege separated the weak from the strong at my school. We used stationary do (always C). I think moveable do would have sent them screaming into the night.
Ah, good times.
Sue Tansey
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Author: Wendy
Date: 2005-08-17 14:04
3dogmom wrote:
>
> Those of you who don't understand solfege, think of something
> simple like "Hot Cross Buns". The tune is "mi-re-do,
> mi-re-do. do-do-do-do re-re-re-re- mi-re-do. If it's in C,
> then it's E-D-C, etc. If it's in any other key, the notes
> change accordingly, but the solfege syllables are the same.
What happens when there are accidentals? What's the syllable for, say, re and 1/2?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-17 14:12
Do, DI, Re, RI Fa, FI, sol, SI, etc......
ti, TEY, la, LAY (descending)
Post Edited (2005-08-17 14:13)
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-17 14:20
The way I was taught, it was still a re (or a mi, depending on the scale). There are different approaches to solfege, because is it taught internationally.
If you're doing it on your own, you could call it whatever you want. The goal is to audiate the notes by recognizing the intervals represented.
Sue Tansey
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Author: kal
Date: 2005-08-18 15:10
sol, huh? I always thought it was so. Guess that terminal l gets lost in the la.
I've found this thread fascinating! Having gone to american schools my whole life (and also, probably, because I only ever studied music history at the university level) I must say I've never even HEARD of anyone doing this. I've always thought of do re mi as a voice thing - nothing that would ever be used by instrumantalists. It seems to overcomplicate things, and for no good reason at that. Especially with this "moveable do" business. Ah, well. Perhaps my mind has finally reached that immalleable "adult" stage. I like that a G is a G, and always will be a G.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-08-18 15:15
kal wrote:
> I've found this thread fascinating! Having gone to american
> schools my whole life (and also, probably, because I only ever
> studied music history at the university level) I must say I've
> never even HEARD of anyone doing this.
Most conservatories will require at least one if not two semesters of solfedge.
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-08-18 15:32
I had two required years of it in undergraduate school.
As an elementary school music teacher, I teach it at all grades as a required part of our state frameworks. This is how music is taught in the schools now, at least in this state. Ask your kids - they probably can do it.
My seventh grader has been taught to use it through music class, chorus, and to a somewhat more limited degree, band.
My eleventh grader is quite adept at it, including moveable do, and can sight sing with a high degree of accuracy, including accidentals and key changes.
It really works.
Sue Tansey
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-08-18 18:37
Manh Italians are exceptional at it as I was told by the teacher at the St. Cecilia Cons. in Rome that the students start and only do solfege for many years before playing an actual instrument.
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-08-18 19:18
I too was taught in a U.S. school system and never, ever heard of such a thing. The only exposure to Do Re Mi was in The Sound of Music - "menos mal" as they say. Fortunately the schools in Ontario, Canada have revamped the curriculum to be more in line with what's taught internationally - teachers are having difficulty with teaching it, but it's about time. Only when my South American husband heard of the letter names for notes and sniffed disgustingly at the N. American system was I aware that there was a difference. The world is getting more and more international in its thinking, it's about time that the schools get on board. Well, there's a good argument for being open minded and prepared to learn something new every day that we live!
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Author: javier garcia m
Date: 2005-08-19 18:35
Mark wrote:
"Letter names? You mean A, B, C, etc.? All of Europe & Asia at least "
At least in France they use Ut, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Si.
I think is the only country where remains the original Ut instead of the most extended Do (in latin countries)
I guess Spain and Italy (maybe Portugal, Greece?) also use Do, Re, Mi, etc.
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