 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GilliganGirl
Date: 2005-08-08 01:02
i'm working on the artie shaw concerto now for kicks and giggles. i'm pretty much classically trained, so this can get to be pretty wicked for me. anyway, i have no idea how to do a lip slur, or even what heck that even means. and that gets to be a problem on that one section with lip slurs and triplets (i can handle the triplets ). and then there's that flippin gliss at the end from g to c... so umm... HELP ME!!!!! any tip on any part of this piece would be really helpful.
thanks
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-08-08 02:07
I don’t really have an answer to your question, but—
The very recent thread “Funny Question” deals with the subject of lip gliss, and it just so happens that Artie Shaw’s name came up.
John Gibson said, “Artie Shaw…period…”
In response, I said, “Well, I’m a huge fan of Artie Shaw, but he doesn’t immediately come to my mind on this particular topic.”
After that Artie Shaw was on my mind, and so I pulled out disk 3 of his Self Portrait boxed set for listening pleasure. I’m listening to it right now.
Artie Shaw used this technique constantly! I had not realized just how pervasive it was in his playing. That’s because his playing was so musical, and this technique was so well integrated into his overall musicality, that it doesn’t stand out as a gimmick or device.
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Author: CheezyClarinetist
Date: 2005-08-08 03:21
The trick is to adjust your soft palate to screw up intonation, and then do a pseudo chromatic run without centered pitches. So you just slide on up. I guess you could also pull away with your bottom lip a little, but you didn't hear that from me.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-08-08 03:52
[ If you type in the word(s): "glissando", "smear", "gliss", "rhapsody glissando", "rhapsody in blue" etc... (no quotes and check spelling carefully) into the Search option you will find a wealth of information written by a number of fine players.
This is not to avoid answering your question, but this particular subject is one of the most asked questions and one that has been written about extensively.
Searching first will often answer a majority of common topics. If you still have questions after searching and reading, don't hesitate to ask - GBK ]
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-08-08 11:41
Hello,
The glissando in which you talk about (high g to double high c) is particularly difficult because you go over a "break" after the double b. It is very easy to get a lower partial for the most important note--the double c. I would practice it as merely a chromatic scale, then do as a previous post said--drop your tongue so as to have a very flat pitch, then, coordinate your chromatic scale with bringing your embouchure into focus so that everything comes together for that last note.
As for the lip slurs with triplets, think of those more like the pitch does not matter. I honestly ignore that direction in the music, but that's a personal choice.
Get a recording of Artie playing the piece. That should be your best teacher.
I've played the piece several times in public. It's a lot of fun and a bit difficult to put together in a couple of places.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: William
Date: 2005-08-08 14:24
Do the search as suggested and give our suggestions a try. The gliss is a basic jazz technique that is easily done in the upper register, but quite a bit more difficult in the lower.
However, if the gliss will not work for you, just play a chromatic scale to the C7--the audience will be nonetheless impressed.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-08 15:32
The reason many players have trouble with the gliss/smear is due to their abhorrence/avoidance of vibrato. To do either you have to let your hair down. For starters may I sugges that you think about the fact that you can "cross the break" without using the register key. After you get that then think about playing the chromatic scale without fingering each note.
Like all other clarinet stuff it takes practice. Details about oral manipulations are too difficult to verbalize.
Bob Draznik
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Author: john gibson
Date: 2005-08-10 18:54
I can go from middle C to high C (above the line) no problem....even up to D by using the left index finger keys. Not really that hard just takes practice. I use the slack lip method and tighten when I reach the desired top note.
Still no one does it like Artie.
JG
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-08-11 01:56
It's true; we Americans are trained too literate. I wouldn't get overly hung up on the smear - rushing the learning curve - and giving it undue bravado during practice. Pitch bending is a requisite skill and technique requiring time to develop. Until mastered, and in this instance, there are several interpretive "quick fixes" for smoothing out the passage and still upholding musicality. Ink is ink, but this is a swing-era "repertoire" chart and essentially a lift; not the Mozart concerto. Written notes are [generally] to be observed but not invariable. If one can play the part that's great, sing it out, otherwise:
1) Attack the G nat with a double forte and straight tone, then apply a 2-count tight vibrato and quick "chromatic rip" up to and wail the double C nat ... and don't make it tasty.
2) Same lick, except stop at the B nat (playing standard fingerings); maintaining a fast, consistent air stream drop the jaw slightly, slowly and simultaneously lift the left and right middle fingers to the C nat.
3) Skip the smear altogether and articulate a strong, double forte G nat followed by a solidly attacked and articulated double C nat. This ensures a "real note" comes out (not a pseudo squeal) and just as impressive as the smear.
And, it would be 10 times more musical investing the extra time creating a harder, more authentic period swing in the duet section or building your jazz vocabulary by adding an open solo chorus and taking a "real ride" then those 2 beats of tree-top fluff. v/r Ken
Post Edited (2005-08-11 23:06)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-08-11 06:12
I can't remember who originally suggested this to me (maybe Charles West) but, instead of crossing the break from C (RT ooo ooo) to C# (RT oxx xxo) try sliding up to C# (RT G# ooo ooo) before you cross the break to C# (RT oxx xxo) then go on up. Alternatively, you can try switching from C (RT ooo ooo) to a long C (e.g., RT oxx|xxxG#) and then go on up. It may help a little crossing the break. For me, the control mostly feels like it comes from the throat rather than the fingers. The fact that Shaw executes his slow gliss flawlessly proves it can be done. (And he probably did that sort of thing almost every night.) For some odd reason, however, Jon Bruce Yeh didn't get it completely seamlessly on his recording -- odd, considering his ability and the option to do retakes.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-08-11 17:01
"i'm working on the artie shaw concerto now for kicks and giggles"
Artie would have loved this comment. Can appreciate your situation and desire for a quick and simple solution. Gin soaked sweating working giggers spend lifetimes learning it. Hope you get your giggles.
Bob Draznik
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-08-12 14:49
The recording I have of the piece has the clarinetist playing the G and ripping up to the C (Really fast) by simply playing the scale (g-a-b-c) really fast and let me tell you, it's pretty effective. That break from the A to the B is kind of tricky but it's a lot of fun once you get it. Have fun with this piece, it's a blast to play.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-08-12 16:04
Aha, I see now that I was talking about the wrong gliss. In your original post, I saw the G starting point and apparently just blew by the fact that the one you were asking about ends on C. I think it was late at night and, for me, the long slow gliss near (but not at) the end has always been the risky one. I need to look at the one you're asking about again. My approach has been to cheat at the end, play a "turn" around the G and attack the C. (Just hitting the C will amaze most audiences.) If I can work something out, I'll post it but I probably won't come up with anything that hasn't already been suggested.
If you listen to Artie Shaw's recording of the concerto, I think you'll hear that he performs the triplets by bending the pitch with lip slurs rather than by fingering triplets. The triplets written out are approximately what the lip slurs are supposed to sound like. They go by so fast though that I think simply playing the triplets as written is just as effective in a live performance.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-08-12 21:27
Jack Kissinger wrote: "if you listen to Artie Shaw's recording of the concerto, I think you'll hear that he performs the triplets by bending the pitch with lip slurs rather than by fingering triplets ... [what the lip slurs are supposed to sound like]."
--and they're disgustingly tight and even too. 35 years of street playing and I still can't lip slur as clean as Artie. v/r Ken
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