 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-07-26 15:17
An interesting topic that came up in a musical social circle of mine was the ability to write lots of music, and when I say a lot, I mean, A LOT!
The first composer than many brought to mind was Joseph Haydn. He wrote some 106 symphonies.
The second and only other composer that came up was Leif Segerstam. It's remarkable that this Finnish composer is only 61 (born in 1944) and that he has written over 240 pieces for full orchestra, 146 of which are "full-length" symphonies (20+ minutes each). Among those are also 2 clarinet concerti.
Of course the thought arises of whether each of his works is individual in its own right. Does symphony No. 101 mirror the musical language of Symphony No. 100? None of us knew, as only one of us (the one that brought his name up) had heard anything of his and it wasn't a symphony of his.
It's amazing that this relatively unknown composer and conductor is not more widely accepted as a great composer of the 20th and 21st century on the level of, say, John Corigliano or Elliott Carter. He may have that status within the Finnish borders, but in America he is a virtual unknown. Apparently his comments can be quite funny too.
So the fundamental questions of this topic puts themselves forth:
On a more personal note, has anyone had any experiences with this interesting character?
Can anyone give any information on the musical quality of Mr. Segerstam's works?
Can, under any circumstances, quantity of music outweigh the quality of music to boost a composer's prestige and noteriety?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-07-26 18:20
Bach wrote over 200 cantatas, and there are over 1000 works in the catalogue. Of course Bach's works tend to have fewer individual parts than a Haydn symphony, and the catalogue counts as separate works many pieces that we might tend to think of us movements of a larger work. Nevertheless, I wouldn't be surprised if Bach wrote more notes in total than Haydn did.
The contrary question, obviously enough, is which famous composer wrote the smallest amount of music. Webern is the answer that comes to mind; maybe someone has him beaten. Answers like "Frygg Phlogliston, Estonian symphonist who died aged 7" will not be accepted as sufficiently famous.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-07-26 18:29
David Peacham wrote:
> The contrary question, obviously enough, is which famous
> composer wrote the smallest amount of music. Webern is the
> answer that comes to mind; maybe someone has him beaten.
Although a minor composer, Abel-Marie Decaux, with an output of one work, has him beat:
http://www.classical-composers.org/cgi-bin/ccd.cgi?comp=decaux
...GBK
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-07-26 18:36
GBK - love the link on Decaux.
Nice to know he "presages Roslavets". I guess someone had to. A shame Roslavets is so obscure he does not even appear in the database.
Also nice to know that he taught at Eastman for 14 years, but no-one knows what he taught??????? I've met teachers like that.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-07-26 18:40
David Peacham wrote:
> Also nice to know that he taught at Eastman for 14 years, but
> no-one knows what he taught??????? I've met teachers like that.
LOL !! ...GBK
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-07-26 19:48
W/regard to your next to last question: Decide for yourself.
<www.naxos.com>
If you search the catalog on "Segerstam" (without the quotes) as composer, you'll find 32 listings (some may be duplicates, I didn't check). If you register under the free option, you can listen to about the first 25% of each movement of each listed piece. That should be more than enough to let you form your own opinion.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2005-07-26 20:11
re: smallest amount of music
Although his name escapes me at the moment, I believe it was the composer who set to music "The Collected Poems of T. E. Hulme".
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Author: redwine
Date: 2005-07-26 22:49
Hello,
If memory serves from college, Carl Ditters von Dittersdorf (sp?) is considered to have written the most pieces ever. I'm really not interested enough to go look to see how many that would be.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2005-07-27 03:37
Maybe our British colleagues can apply that last question to William Havergal Brian. A huge output, but I hear names like Tippett, Bantock, and Goehr mentioned far more often than Havergal Brian. Do the British hear much of it?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-07-27 11:13
Google hits:
Havergal Brian 13400
Michael Tippett 53500
Alexander Goehr 7410
Granville Bantock 8370
Maybe we need to work out the ratio of Google hits to minutes of music?
More seriously, the only one being played at the BBC Proms this year is Tippett. He appears in seven Proms, a total of twelve works. Well, it is his centenary year. But he is by far the most famous of the four, a household name in any household with any interest in music.
Of post-war Brits, I would suggest that the famous names are, in descending order of fame, Britten, Vaughan Williams, Walton, Tippett, Maxwell Davies, Finzi, Birtwhistle ... probably I've forgotten someone really obvious, but Havergal Brian, Bantock, Goehr certainly don't rank with them in terms of fame. If you include all twentieth century composers then of course Elgar goes to number one. I stress, I'm talking fame here, not quality.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2005-07-27 12:01
That's true, David, and that's my point. Tippett is more well-known (bad example), but Goehr and Bantock are hardly household names, and still I hear more of them than Brian despite his output of "monumental" and more conventional works. I know of him only by the reputation of his large output and first symphony, and I'm wondering whether this is generally the case, or if he's known locally at least as a composer of "quality", for want of a better word.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-07-27 13:44
There will be others on this BBoard better informed than me, but my perception is that Havergal Brian, like Benjamin Frankel and Robert Simpson, is neglected and will remain neglected for writing in an accessible (otherwise known as old-fashioned) style.
I don't know whether there is a website that lets you search for past performances. For example, a list of every concert given by the LSO since 1990, or the Proms for the last 10 years.
In the absence of such a thing, the following seems to agree with what I've been saying: http://www.scena.org/columns/lebrecht/001227-NL-british.html
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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