 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-07-19 23:55
(How's that for a sexist Headline?)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/arts/music/20also.html
Or at least the board votes to hire one.
I haven't been paying close attention - but I gather sone (many?) of the musicians are unhappy about this. What's the problem?
JDS
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2005-07-20 03:01
Tried copying and pasting the link, John, and got nowhere. Can you give us a brief synopsis? It's hard to know what you're referring to from, 'they're unhappy' and 'what's the problem?'
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-07-20 04:19
Summary:
Baltimore Symphony hires Marin Alsop as new musical director despite widespread objections among musicians. Alsop is current director of the Bournemouth Symphony in England and will be the first woman to conduct an orchestra of such size in the U.S. She will succeed Yuri Temirkanov, who is in his last season. Musicians don't feel she has the stature to lead the BSO, while the symphony board is firmly behind her. However, musician representatives did say that while they're disappointed, they've promised to work with her and "this will not dampen our enthusiasm and zest for music making."
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2005-07-20 04:21)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-07-20 10:47
Ron B:
Hmm, please try again - worked for me
Here it is again
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/arts/music/20also.html
(You might have to "register" with the NYTimes - free, no spam has resulted as far as I can tell.)
JDS
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2005-07-20 11:55
The Washington Post has published three feature articles by Tim Page about this controversy over Marin Alsop. I subscribe to the print edition and don't have the exact links, but the site is searchable:
http://www.washingtonpost.com
The articles appeared Monday, July 18, on p. A1 (the front page); Tuesday, July 19, on p. C1 (front of the Style section) and Wednesday, July 20, on p. A1.
Page is the Post's lead classical music reviewer. He's a knowledgable critic and an excellent pianist, too, btw. Page hasn't editorialized a lot on the subject (these are news articles, and he does know the difference, unlike a lot of the Post's writers lately...), but he writes today, "The complaints about Alsop from the musicians are specific and detailed and are not about sex. Her detractors say that her interpretations of the standard classical repertory are flat and uninteresting and that she lacks the technical skills to fix problems when they arise in rehearsal."
Yesterday, in the Style section, Page quoted examples of vague, emotional or abstract pep-talks when the orchestra expected and needed technical comments. For instance, according to Page's source, once she told the orchestra to "make magic." Unfortunately, the context isn't clear. Was that her *only* instruction? Does she say that sort of thing without giving any more specific help? Or was that her final "take it away" remark after saying something more specific? The musicians who went to Page with their gripes may have quoted selectively.
In today's article, Page goes on to quote a BSO horn player, Sylvia Alimena (herself a conductor), in defense of Alsop's technical skills and thorough preparation. He also writes, "As good as she is--and Alsop at her best is very good indeed, especially in American music--she has acknowledged that she wouldn't have had a chance at a position such as this until very recently." In one of his previous articles, he mentioned that Alsop is best known for her interpretation of contemporary American music, and only turned recently to conducting the older classics.
Reading between the lines, I see hints of a turf fight here, aside from the musical considerations. It seems orchestra management dodged around the musicians and imposed management's will. The musicians, though their seven members who were outnumbered on the 21-person search committee, the Artistic Advisory Committee, thought they were going to have more options to choose from, a longer period of time to make the choice and more input in making the decision. Page wrote on Monday. July 18, "The search committee also included seven board [of directors] members, six administrative staff members and one outside consultant." Outnumbered, the musicians took the full nuclear option. "Word of the pending appointment was leaked to the media Thursday night."
As Page wrote on July 19, "But a letter dated April 21 from Anthony S. Brandon, a board member who has been outspoken in his opposition to Alsop's appointment, to Philip English, the chairman of the BSO board, is specific. It was drafted with the help of other board members, with input from a number of musicians, and copies have circulated freely in circles close to the BSO . . . . 'The overriding justification for eliminating Alsop is that 90 percent of the BSOmusicians oppose her appointment,' the letter states." That letter goes on to detail the complaints about Alsop's technical conducting skills.
The massive publicity may have triggered a backlash, I suspect, although Page doesn't say so. I'm not sure how many people serve on the BSO's Board of Directors, and the vote total is private; but according to Page, 35 to 40 of the board members showed up to vote. They may have been delivering a mighty slap to the uppity musicians.
This is a good orchestra, much improved in recent years. I would hate to be in Alsop's position right now, standing up in front of musicians this deeply angry and confrontational. However, I admire her for accepting the challenge, instead of wimping out. It will be interesting, to say the least, to see what happens.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-07-20 12:20
Not being a professional musician, or even a particularly accomplished amateur, what are the "technical skills" of the conductor that they are referring to? Is it things like adjusting the dynamics of various sections with respect to each other, or what? (I'm certain there is more to it than that one example, but that's what popped to mind first).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-07-20 13:09
To me the most important thing that a conductor has to have is depth of interpretation for the works performed.
I don't know her, nor any of her work - have only heard the name.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-07-20 13:18
First of all, a small correction to Lelia's insightful post: Sylvia Alimena is second horn player with the National Symphony, not the Baltimore Symph.
With regard to the "technical skills" question--adjusting dynamics is certainly one of the first things that come to mind--but actual stick technique, the ability to non-verbally communicate with the players to create a unified product, emotionally as well as technically, impresses me as the hallmark of a truly accomplished music director! I've played for many conductors with flawless technique, who nonetheless created performances that were sterile and boring; some few others with less perfect "hands" who left orchestra and audience alike with electrifying musical-emotional experiences.
Leonard Bernstein was one of the few who combined the best of both of these attributes. Interestingly, he seemed to know that the podium was about the worst place in the hall to evaluate orchestral balance etc; he would regularly hand the baton to an assistant while he wandered about the hall, listening from various locations.
I "subbed" for last weeks National Symphony concerts (including "On the Trail"); there was some backstage talk about the Alsop/Baltimore situation.
Concensus: "We're glad Baltimore's got her!" (The NSO is, itself, in the throes of a music director search process.) We're glad Baltimore has Sammy Sosa, too.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-07-20 13:31
LarryBocaner wrote:
> We're glad Baltimore has Sammy Sosa, too.
I'm not.
As a life long Oriole fan (all the more difficult living in NY), Sam-Me is a mere shadow of himself.
Withdrawal is tough on the body. No cork in the bat is even tougher ...GBK (Go O's!)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-07-20 13:42
I was kinda taking it like Washington was glad that Baltimore had him (and not them)
Wasn't sure on that one as I would think that the Nationals and the Orioles would be competitors - like the Ravens and the Redskins?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-07-20 13:44
Yet the O's are only a game out of first place and Tejada, Roberts and Mora are in the top end of nearly every batting category, and Palmeiro is there to boot. That's a tough joint for Sosa to stink up by himself.
Hey GBK, is it still a big deal when they hit the warehouse at Camden Yards?
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
Post Edited (2005-07-20 13:45)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-07-20 14:16
From a report I heard on the radio yesterday (or the day before), before they announced who the conductor actually was to be, it sounded as if the musicians were upset that there had not been a consensus and that the other 14 members of the committee had outnumbered them in the decision making.
As far as Marin Alsop's ability, I haven't taken the time to attend one of her performances, but I know that she has been good enough to be asked to repeatedly guest-conduct the Indianapolis Symphony. On the other hand, they chose Mario Venzago over her in selecting a replacement for Raymond Leppard. (I don't know if she was their 2nd choice or their 22nd.)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-07-20 14:34
small clip from the article:
Alsop has won her orchestra -- but at a price. Not since Lorin Maazel was
appointed music director of the Cleveland Orchestra in the early 1970s with
only 2 percent of the ensemble naming him as first choice has any conductor faced such general opposition from the players.
The complaints about Alsop from the musicians are specific and detailed and are not about her sex. Her detractors say that her interpretations of the standard classical repertory are flat and uninteresting and that she lacks the technical skills to fix problems when they arise in rehearsal.
and
Sylvia Alimena, a conductor and horn player with the National Symphony
Orchestra, defended Alsop. "Marin is one of the most hardworking and
talented people out there, man or woman. She is always thoroughly prepared when she stands in front of an orchestra and has many, if not most, of her scores memorized."
Post Edited (2005-07-20 15:16)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2005-07-20 14:39
But....what will she wear on the podium. Let's get serious.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-07-20 14:55
David Blumberg said:
"Her detractors say that her interpretations of the standard classical repertory are flat and uninteresting and that she lacks the technical skills to fix problems when they arise in rehearsal.
and
"Marin is one of the most hardworking and
talented people out there, man or woman. She is always thoroughly prepared when she stands in front of an orchestra and has many, if not most, of her scores memorized."
----------------
The interesting thing to me is that both of these statements can easily be true. She could have all her scores memorized, work her tail off preparing, and still produce uninteresting interpretations.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2005-07-20 21:57
Thanks to Larry Bocaner for correcting my mistake about where the horn player works. Tim Page got that information correct in his article; it was my own mistake in typing.
archer1960 wrote,
>>The interesting thing to me is that both of these statements can easily be true. She could have all her scores memorized, work her tail off preparing, and still produce uninteresting interpretations.>>
Yes, quite true. I've never heard her conduct, so all I can do is repeat the hearsay.
Re. technical skills, I think it would drive most musicians wild to hear a conductor say, "Make magic," with nothing a bit more -- boringly factual! -- whether the conductor really has the technical chops or not. If she was happy with the way they were playing, and said something like that because there was nothing she wanted to change, then maybe part of what's going on here is just a communications problem: When she doesn't want to cahnge anything, she needs to say she doesn't want to change anything; or else they'll assume she does want changes and that "Make magic" is a fatally vague criticism (meaning, "You didn't make magic on that last run-through, so make magic now."). Or maybe she's really not good enough for the job and the board is hiring her to be politically correct or some stupid thing. I don't know. But it's going to be interesting to see how this mess shakes out.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2005-07-20 21:58)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-07-20 22:46
Marin Alsop is wonderful and there are so few woman working in the seemingly mysogynsitic world of conducting I take my hat off to her. Let's hope she lives up to the demands the BSO place on her. We have produced our own "world class" woman conducter (Simone Young) and she nows heads up on of the big Opera Houses in Germany after a fight with the Board of Opera Australia ... that is OUR loss and Germany's gain.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: msloss
Date: 2005-07-21 03:20
I've heard/seen her conduct several orchestras and my experience has been unmoved. She seems to do all the right stuff if you were making a list of "things that should be done" in a piece, but the sum total of the effort leaves me cold.
Perhaps my expectations run too high. For someone who is a disciple of Leonard Bernstein, who arguably could take musical passion and intensity too far, she is a remarkably flat musician. IMHO, Michael Tilson Thomas is a purer decendent of the LB tradition.
I don't think it is a sexist/discriminatory thing at all. It isn't like the ladies in the Bal'mer Symphony are rallying behind Marin and the guys are pissing all over her. The orchestra presented a fairly unified company front. They think her buzz exceeds her artistry. I applaud her for plowing the road for future lady conductors who will exceed her. But, the BSO doesn't need a social statement (or maybe they do if this is a stunt to pander to their donor base given their financial condition); they need an artist.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Francesca
Date: 2005-07-21 07:07
I had the opportunity to observe Ms. Alsop several times while she was with the Colorado Symphony. I, for one, liked her conducting, and the ensemble's performances in general. I hope she can win the players over.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2005-07-21 11:16
There's a new Tim Page article in today's (July 21) Washington Post (p. C4, in the Style section), about Marin Alsop's first news conference and her first meeting with the Baltimore S. O. musicians since she accepted the appointment. The Post failed to crop the news conference photo, mostly gray space with a hideously unflattering head shot way down at bottom center. If people read what she said instead of judging from that grim mug shot, she should make a good impression for her diplomacy in an awkward situation.
She said she was tempted to withdraw, but decided to accept the appointment because she felt she had a good rapport with the musicians when she conducted them. Page quotes her as saying, "'In spite of all the publicity, I didn't feel that their unhappiness was in any way personal' -- she paused -- 'until maybe the last day or two.'"
Page also writes, "The musicians have indicated that part of their objection to Alsop was the way her appointment was presented as an established fact before they had what they considered a promised opportunity to present their views to the board."
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: allencole
Date: 2005-07-26 06:39
This issue showed up on the July 25 editorial page of the Richmond Times-Dispatch. (the lady was here in Richmond for a few years, but I never got to see her in action)
As I was attempting to link the fairly inane editorial item, I discovered that she's also on the editoial page for July 26.
The July 25th article deals with the controversy in Baltimore and the editors opine that it's great to have something newsworthy to report in the field of classical music.
The July 26th editorial reminds us that female conductors are not such a rare breed.
I couldn't get links going, but anyone curious can search by her name at
http://www.timesdispatch.com
Allen Cole
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
