 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-06-30 14:37
We all know that Vandoren reeds range in strength within the same box. Thus a box of (for example) Blue Box #3 Vandoren reeds can range in strength from 2.6 to 3.4.
As has been notated numerous times, this is seemingly done intentionally.
Perhaps file this under "urban legend" or coincidence, but a few of my students have remarked that within a box of Vandoren reeds the lesser strength reeds are always found on the left side of the box (as you hold the box forward and the top flap opens from front to back)
As I do not play Vandoren reeds, I'm just wondering if this is just an "old wive's tale" or there is some truth to the position of the reeds within the box.
Perhaps something to notice when you open your next box...GBK
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Author: cujo
Date: 2005-06-30 14:52
Probably in the factory the reeds will already be in a some specific order as they come off the machines due to thier position in the line. No reason to make extra effort to mix them up. Of if they are mixed some will land in he same general place more often creating a somewhat organized mix.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-06-30 14:54
And Vandoren is partly owned by Osama bin Laden.
When you play Vandoren, the terrorists win.
--Ralph (who plays V12 4 on an M30)
BTW, can someone tell me (or point me to a link) how reed strengths are quantified? Is there a quantifiable difference between a 2.5 and (as GBK listed) a 2.6?
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-30 15:22
Vandoren variations aside, I'm not sure if it's meaningful or even possible to quantify reed 'strength' by a single number.
If the parameter being measured is, say, "deflection at the tip given a point load applied at the tip", then sure it can be measured and will give a unique answer for that reed at that particular time under those conditions of temperature and humidity, when attached to a standard test fixture or 'reference mouthpiece' by a 'reference clamp or ligature'. But what does such a number really tell us as far as how the reed PLAYS?
The response of a reed depends very little on the "beam-bending" strength (deflection per unit load measured at the tip) --- response depends hugely on the fiber orientations of the cane, the mechanical properties of the fibers and cane matrix themselves, the reed strength DISTRIBUTION (variations of reed thickness and cane density throughout the reed in three dimensions), all of this of course in relation to the mouthpiece facing curve and interior dimensions.
Reed 'strength' may be a starting point for some players, but as a single measurement I would classify it as nearly worthless and not worthy of fretting over obsessively. Just my opinion as a mechanical engineer....
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-06-30 15:23
The reed strength is tested in 2 possible ways.
1: The 2-3 dots you see in the butt end of the reed. That is what the machine which presses on the butt to sense what the pressure needed to make the indent is and that gauges the strength of the reed
2: Gomez uses this method - a machine flexes the tip of the reed and that measures the strength of the reed.
I know ((Gomez - oops wrong name!!)) GONZALES Reeds use that method as I have their DVD on how reeds are made and the process. It's a really cool 5 minute segment with kick azz music accompaning it.
Post Edited (2005-06-30 15:50)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-06-30 15:25
btw - it is quite precise, however that doesn't in either method account for any variance in the vascular bundles density. So one side of the reed can feel like a 3.2 and the other side like a 3.8 which we have all experienced.
As for Vandoren, maybe the guy who's hired to put the 1 good reed in a box likes to use the left side to put it 
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Author: CPW
Date: 2005-06-30 15:43
Gomez?
Aside from Morticia's hubby, who he?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-06-30 15:49
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> But what does such a number really tell us as far as how the reed PLAYS?
Probably the reason we all, at one time, ask: "How did THAT reed ever get in the box?" ...GBK
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-06-30 16:28
Hard to believe.....next thing you know they will start pinning notes on the back of your shirt.....
Bob Draznik
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Author: The Doctor ★2017
Date: 2005-06-30 17:13
More precise ways of measuring reed "strength" can be envisioned. My own pension would be to use a piezo electric clamp simulating a mouthpiece with 2/3 of the back of the reed covered and the heel and body of the top. A precise current applied would make the reed vibrate and the deflection of the tip easily measured by a number of possible methods - e.g. laser beam diffraction. This would be a better method of determining the vibrational potential rather than merely reed tip resistance. David is correct that this is only a snap shot under one set of conditions of temperature, humidity and ambient conditions. The reed actually changes in many ways when it is hydrated.
More precise reed grading is not necessarily the aim of the reed companies however. They can make a certain amount of reeds from a certain poundage of tube cane. These reeds will vary over a spectrum of strengths and to make money they have to sell all the reeds in the spectrum. If they discarded reeds that were not even numbered on their measurement scale the average price of reeds would skyrocket. No matter what system of grading is used there must be some variability in reed strength within a box to accommodate the variability in the total production of reeds. Some companies increase the number of available strengths by using 1/4 grading between whole numbers which numerically increases the odds of getting a reed closer to the stated value than larger divisions in strength. The caveat is of course the precision of measurement and some correlation of the grading system with playability.
I guess that the most prudent path for the player is to get a reed friendly mouthpiece, develop a flexible embouchure, and hone their skills at reed adjustment to modify reeds into playable reeds.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-30 18:31
"I guess that the most prudent path for the player is to get a reed friendly mouthpiece, develop a flexible embouchure, and hone their skills at reed adjustment to modify reeds into playable reeds."
L. Omar Henderson
Amen, Doc! You've just said it all.
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Author: William
Date: 2005-06-30 21:43
William Stubens, legendary retired U of Michigan clarinet professor said it this way: "Play the reed--don't let the reed play you". Due to the varying texture of cane fibers and how it grows, there is no way for any manufacturer to accurately grade the strength of a reed. Even Legere reeds that have the same grade will vary slightly in strength and response. It is essential for the working clarinetist to learn to deal with these inconsistancies--legendary with Vandorans--because they are are not going to "go away" no matter who makes the reed. For those that can't, there is always the need for more good trombone players.
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