 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Kanehira
Date: 2005-06-26 01:26
I've been working out of the Baermann book (Book III, I believe) and working on the first section (the section starting on page one). I'm supposed to be able to play one set (the exercise for one key), at tempo 70, in one breath. (I think that's eight bars.) About halfway through the scale, I run out of air and have to take more, and barely finish the rest of the exercise, in a very weak tone. Do you guys have any ideas on how to work on this? Sometimes in orchestra, I can't get through a phrase in the piece that I should be able to. Also, another question is that when I play my 12 major scales in "all-state pattern," air starts leaking out of the sides. Now, it only happens when I play my scales in that pattern. After the air starts leaking, I can turn to an etude and play it without any leaks or I can play it in a Baermann exercise, yet I can't finish my major scales without leaking so much air I can't go on. After about the third scale, air starts leaking and by the fifth one, too much air is leaking to sustain a tone. Any ideas on what the issue is or how to fix it?
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Author: Flarinet
Date: 2005-06-26 01:55
I find that excercising a lot helps my lung compacity and now I can do about two lines. I don't know if that helps any, I'm not a professional or anything. I also found calming myself right before I play something helps.
I don't know about the leaking thing. Sometimes that happens to me when my reed is too wet. I take it off and swipe it on my jeans. I don't know if it's the same thing we're talking about though... yet again, I'm not a pro. I've only been playing 7 yrs.
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Author: William
Date: 2005-06-26 17:13
As you mentioned "air leaking", I would suspect that, in order to achieve that "big, dark" sound, you may be using a reed that is too stiff--a mistake that many clarinetist fall victum too. Possible solution--try selectng a reed that you can play using a double lip embouchure. Using this (probably softer) reed and the DL method, play a few scales or etudes to learn how it makes your facial muscles work. Then, after you return to your "conventional" embouchure (if you do), try to incorporate more of that double lip feel into it. In other words, rely a bit more of upper lip support and less on "bite" for tone support and see if this helps your leakage problem. Modifying your embouchure with incressed upper lip envolvement will also enable you to you to use your air more efficiently for sound production.
bottom line: a softer reed--maybe only only one-half strength--combined with more double lip "feel" in your conventional embouchure may be the answer to your air suppport/leakage concerns. Give it a try, and good luck.
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-06-26 18:40
ITA with the suggestions of Flarinet and William...and your problems could possibly be a combination of the two.
I second experimenting with a softer reed. I used to play on #5 Vandoreen Blue Box...and always had horrible troubles...and now play on a 3.5 to 3.75 Gonzales. On a softer reed, you can't bite since the reed will close up. The air leakage could be due to biting to produce sound on a hard reed, thus tiring out your embouchure...of course, there are many possibilities.
And exercise does help - especially if you are female, since women have a smaller lung capacity than men of a similar size. By training the core muscles and beginning aerobic activity you should see a tremendous difference in your stamina.
If you don't exercise regularly, start the aerobic activity by either walking or swimming - neither are hard on the body. Also, Pilates is fantastic for isolating the core muscles...it also helps with posture (which has also helped my playing). If you have access to a Pilates reformer machine (through a gym or at home), the exercises on the machine also help the development of lean muscle in other parts of the body (arms, legs, etc.) If you have discomfort in your right arm/wrist...developing the muscles of the arm, shoulder and back are extremely helpful.
So, have fun experimenting and good luck!
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-06-26 20:53
To me it also sounds as if your reeds are too hard for oyur mouthpiece. But it's impossible to tell that over the internet. Can you ask a professional teacher in person?
About SueSmith's Pilates comments- I can't see how "isolating the core muscles" would improve your breathing capacity?
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-26 21:23
I actually sometimes have the opposite problem than you. My clarinet teacher says to me multiple times per lesson "Carrie, you can take a breath any time." I am used to going on lots of air and not taking very many breaths. I have to plan breaths in music sometimes.
I am also a singer and take voice lessons. Here is 1 exercise we do for voice:
Find the pitch F above middle C on the piano (open G on the clarinet). Set your metronome to quarter=120. Now sing the F and count 1,2,3,4....etc. 1 count per click of the metronome. Record your highest score per day. A couple of years ago my first time ever on this was that I got to 37 which is 18.5 seconds of exhaling. I am now at 62, which is 31 seconds of exhaling. It will get better each day, and it may take a little bit of time to improve your "scores".
Now here is an exercise to expand your lung capacity:
Set your metronome to quarter=60. Inhale for 4 counts (at 2 counts you should be half full and at 4 you should be COMPLETELY FULL!) now hold for 4 counts. Exhale for 4 counts (same thing as inhaling), now hold for 4 counts (at this time your lungs should be completely empty and these 4 counts will make you feel like you need air pronto.) Now repeat this 2 more times. You can even to this at school and watch the second hand. It takes seriously 76 seconds for you to do this 3 times a day. You can to this very disceretly and nobody will know.
If you do both of these exercises that I explained, your lung capacity will increase. Also, breath from below. Make sure that your shoulders are down when you breath. To feel for a proper breath lay on your back on the floor. Lay a book on your stomach. Breath-the book should go up. It's hard to breath improperly in this position. Now, take that feeling and breath like that all the time.
Hope this made sense! It will really help, I promise!
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Author: Kanehira
Date: 2005-06-26 21:41
I just "downgraded" (I don't mean I went down in quality, per say, just reed strength) my reed to a little softer recently, but you see, I don't think a hard reed is the cause of the leaks, because it only happens when I play all major scales in that pattern-- I can stop the scales and then play like 2 pages of etudes and I'll leak absolutely no air... hmm... also, when I go to an even softer reed, my tone is "loud" and spreads, in my opinion, and it gets so hard to control-- it's just frustrating then. I think I will start exercising more often because let's say, I need to. I'm playing on V12 3.5 (I "downgraded" from VD blue box 3.5. Before the blue box 3.5, I played on ML 3.5, then blue box 3, then blue box 3.5).
Keep the help coming!
-K
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-26 22:25
You say it's just the scales in that pattern? Well, switch the stinkin' pattern up. Split it up. Do 4 between each etude. You don't want to set you fingers in a certain pattern if in an audition you need to know them randomly. Make sure you keep everything the same as you do when you do an etude. Imagine your scales like an etude. Hmm... that's all I can come up with.
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-06-27 00:14
Quote:
About SueSmith's Pilates comments- I can't see how "isolating the core muscles" would improve your breathing capacity?
Liqourice,
I don't believe I stated that there is a direct correlation between pilates and increase lung capacity. That's why I included aerobic activities "walking and swimming" in my post...which will increase your ability to utilize your lung capacity and lengthen your stamina. What pilates has done for me, is strengthen the core muscle group...which somehow - I can't completely explain the mechanics - has improved how I can control air speed. Through trial and error I've found in my body, that the abdominal muscle group is essential to "air support" or "control" - whatever you like to call it.
Every person is different, but in my experience I've found Pilates is great for women...and wind players. Trust me, the average man is stronger pound for pound than the average woman...its just anatomy. Men also have more strength (muscle mass) in the upper body. Another drawback as a female is the extra weight on top if you are a "developed" woman...and trust me, men have no idea how heavy "they" can get! As a female musician, I've seen a significant improvement from even moderate exercise...as long as there was a balance between aerobic, muscular strengthening and stretching. The great thing about Pilates on a reformer machine is that it combines light to moderate strength training with stretching. Not to mention, it helps build the muscles that support a better posture (abs and back). And having a better posture also allows you to breath better.
Post Edited (2005-06-27 01:33)
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-06-27 14:53
SueSmith and I must be cut from the same mold - I too find that exercise makes a big difference in my being able to play - and sing - better! Even consistent walking gives me more power with far less effort. I'm not a swimmer but my physiotherapist told me that I should include it in my routine since it works tension out of the upper back and shoulder muscles, not a bad thing for clarinet players. Isolating and exercising the core muscles helps me have more air velocity, supporting the sound better.
Combining physical exercise with the long tones and the other suggestions mentioned above make a big difference. Some of us have to concentrate more on exercise than others.
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Author: Contra
Date: 2005-06-27 18:07
I suggest taking up a contrabass for a year. If you don't have huge lungs by the end of that, then maybe you should invest in accordion-type lungs.
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Author: szyJYM
Date: 2005-06-27 19:55
I suggest investing in a copy of "The Art of Breathing" by Nancy Zi. Some of Carrie's intructions and many more are described in detail in this book. I tried one exercise a while ago and noticed a marked improvement in my air stamina.
Also, so much of being able to keep all that air in and not shooting out the sides of your mouthpiece depend on the embouchure.
--Mike
Wide-eyed music student entering college this fall
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-06-27 22:34
Carrie and Brenda,
Yes, ITA, taking singing lessons and singing in a choir are great tools for all wind players. At my last conservatory, only piano majors were required to sing in choir (since they needed a major ensemble credit) Unfortunately, I haven't had much time recently to sing or take lessons, but about 10 years ago I was an alto in my college choir. It really develops your aural skills as well as giving you new insight into the mechanics of breathing away from the clarinet.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-28 00:11
Sue-my voice teacher also encourages all her voice students (especially her college ones) to play a wind instrument to help the breathing, etc. I feel like they both go hand in hand for better breathing.
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-06-28 02:32
Carrie,
Which came first - the chicken or the egg? Clarinet or singing for you?
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-28 03:51
Haha Sue. I sang (around the house for fun) before I played the clarinet. Started the clarinet in 5th grade and started singing in the school extra choirs in 5th grade. Started voice lessons in 9th grade and started clarinet lessons in 9th grade. Hmm... They came as a pair and that's how I like it! Was your comment in a mean tone? I can't tell, I'm not mad or anything! I just like singing and think that vocalist can learn a lot from instrumentalists and vice versa!
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-06-28 04:32
Quote:
They came as a pair and that's how I like it! Was your comment in a mean tone?
LOL - oh not at all! I was just curious as to what was your "first" instrument...but it seems from your timeline, they've become intertwined.
As I stated above, I wish I had the time to pursue vocal lessons - they are very useful!
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-28 04:41
Yeah, they have become intertwined! I didn't think that you were being mean, but sometimes you just have to ask to make sure (some people on this BBoard are hard to interpret)! If you have any spare 30-60 minutes of block time a week, I would totally try to do vocal lessons! It's never too late to go back, just like it's never too late to pick up the clarinet again!
Yeah next year for school I have 4 out of my 7 hours that are music classes. 1 1/2 band, 1 1/2 choir, and 1 that is music history/theory. Craziness! Although both have intertwined, I like the clarinet more than singing, but at the same time I couldn't give singing up either! : )
So about that air endurance. I better go hold my breath and wait for my root canal at 8 am tomorrow! I hope I can endure that! haha... my jokes are lame-o. Not up to GBK's calibur. : (
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-06-28 21:11
When I get more settled into my schedule - and rake in some extra cash, it would probably be a good idea to get back into singing. My county's chorus starts up in Sept. and I had considered joining, but an audition is required. I'll probably find that more nerve racking than any orchestral audition! The thought of a vocal audition is so exposing. No reeds or leaking pads to blame...its all just you!
Quote:
Not up to GBK's calibur. : (
GBK is certainly one of a kind! Last night I visited his Big Band East site, but didn't have much time to look around. It looks like a fun group though and with him in it, I can't see how it wouldn't be! Edited to add: I just went back to the site and listened to the MP3's. I love the Woodchopper's Ball file...and I will assume that GBK played that fantastic clarinet solo!
GBK - if you are out there and reading this, do you have any more MP3's of your group...or a CD?
Best of luck with your root canal!
Post Edited (2005-06-28 21:27)
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Author: ClarinetConnoisseur
Date: 2005-06-29 16:11
A lot of people have suggested walking/jogging/etc. and I've recently started walking daily. I really need to project more, because I have a good tone, but it never comes out strongly. I also want to have more breath support so I can play longer without taking a breath. Any suggestions to how fast or long I should walk each day?
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Author: Kanehira
Date: 2005-06-29 16:43
I've started exercising more regularly so hopefully there'll be a gradual difference as this goes on... we'll see, we'll see. I'm doing exercise everyday or every other day in the form of walking (benefits of having a dog) and going to the gym, so we'll see, like I said.
-K
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Author: archer1960
Date: 2005-06-29 16:50
Kanehira wrote:
> I've started exercising more regularly so hopefully there'll be
> a gradual difference as this goes on... we'll see, we'll see.
> I'm doing exercise everyday or every other day in the form of
> walking (benefits of having a dog) and going to the gym, so
> we'll see, like I said.
Just make sure your exercise is aerobic (i.e. not weight-lifting), because that's what uses and develops your lung and oxygen-carrying capacity the fastest.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-29 18:20
Archer is somewhat right, but weight lifting has some benefits. For the above average woman (cough*me*cough), lifting weights creates more muscle mass and the more muscles you have the more calories you burn off. Muscles burn off more calories pound for pound than fat. Then, the lighter you are the easier it is to run and you can run longer (this is my personal experience). I'd say do both weight training and aerobics and you'll be in great shape physically and lung wise!
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2005-06-29 20:18
Of course, you also get really overweight, unfit people who are excellent clarinetists. You don't have to be a tri-athlete to play the clarinet!
Post Edited (2005-06-29 20:20)
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Author: SueSmith
Date: 2005-06-29 21:04
Quote:
Of course, you also get really overweight, unfit people who are excellent clarinetists. You don't have to be a tri-athlete to play the clarinet!
You know Liquorice, I have noticed this odd fact as well. Especially in some BBW's...the two fattest (no pun was intended, but I noticed it upon my proof read!) tones I've ever heard from any female clarinetists came out of two extremely plus sized women. But both of these women also had large bone structures and were between 5'6" - 5'8". I'm 5'4" and small/medium bone structure...and I have noticed a huge difference between when I'm out of shape (30lbs over weight) and in shape (117-125lbs) - even in everyday life. I think how weight/fitness level affects a person depends on their sex as well as their bone structure - at least this is part of the equation. As Brenda stated above, some people just have to work harder.
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Author: Rhythmacres
Date: 2005-07-01 05:18
Definately exercise. If you swim, try to go as far as possible on one breath. The Trevor Wye flute instruction books advise this exercise: Take a deep diaphragmatic breath, as deep as you can, and hold it. Then take in even more air, and then even more. Exhale slowly. Exhale entirely. Then exhale some more. Do this six times a day, and your chest cavity can be expanded a couple of inches in a year. Also, I'm working with a trigger-point therapist, and among other things, we're getting the diaphragm muscles loosened up by reaching under the rib cage and working them loose. Also, learn to relax. Since your scales are causing the problem, I would suspect that there is a mental brick wall that's impeding your progress. If you put your energy into your breath, making sure it is relaxed and the air is well-placed, you'll get farther. Make sure you're breathing diaphramatically, and if you don't know how to do that, ask a teacher. Whenever I get over excited, I focus on my breath, making sure it feels comfortable and nourishing. Like magic, I feel better, sound better, and even my fingers get the idea, and they work better.
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