 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-14 21:59
My repair tech overhauled the Couesnon Monopole Bb clarinet I recently acquired. Being a curious type, I asked him to measure its bore. He said that it's exactly .580. This is a bit unusal by current clarinet standards. Does anyone have any insights or comments about a .580 bore?
By the way, the Couesnon has a beautiful sound. I'd describe it as a bit darker and thicker than what I normally associate with an R-13. Very sweet sound. Powerful, too.
Thanks, Roger
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-06-15 12:02
Roger,
Sorry, I can't answer your question about the bore, but I'd like to ask you about the barrel!
I bought a beautiful Couesnon Monopole for a very low price. It needs a bit of work and came without a barrel.
I was surprised to discover that none of my selmer, yamaha or buffet barrels will fit. They are all too big!
Have you noticed this as well?
Steve
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-06-15 13:47
Years ago I had an "A Fountaine" 17/6 cl which I determined, from an ad, was a [the?] student model of the Cousenon "line", quite a good playing/sounding horn, as I recall. Perhaps I can find the ad in old copies of the Woodwind mag. of the 1950's. I did not measure or try other barrels on it, it "felt" small [O D], so it may have been a French small-bore, and thin-walled cl. Will look and report anything of significance. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-06-15 14:32
Assuming the measurement was done at the bottom of the upper joint (SOP) it is a wider bore horn.
[If the measurement was where the barrel joins, then it is not unlike a modern French one. ]
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-15 14:52
To tack onto Don's post, I've overhauled a few of the "A. Fontaine" (made by Couesnon) clarinets and, while they're OK, they are student/intermediate clarinets, unlike the Couesnon "Monopole Conservatiores" instruments which are full-fledged professional clarinets and (IMHO) play as well as your typical R-13s.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-06-15 14:53
At least in the 1950s and 60s, Cuesnon clarinets had a different design from other instruments. The intention was to make an even scale, and particularly a seamless transition between the throat tones and the bottom of the clarion register. I've played several over the years and remember that they definitely achieved this goal.
The playing qualities were different enough from my Buffet that I would need to spend some time getting used to the instrument. I remember the company representative saying that many of the French Conservatory prizewinners played Cuesnons.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Llewsrac
Date: 2005-06-15 16:10
Check out The " Band of the French Gande Republicians" or
"Le Musique de la Gande Republicaine"
www.saxpic.com/selmer/prototypes.htm
The Couesnon Monopole provided clarinets to the Gande Republicaine Band as well as the early Selmer USA.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-15 20:01
Ken,
Your description of the Couesnon's seamless transition is right on the money. This is exactly how my Couesnon sounds.
Roger
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-17 11:30
As a follow up,
My repair tech remeasured the Couesnon's upper joint and found that both ends are exactly .580.
I forgot to mention that the Couesnon has a rosewood bell. This may be one of the reasons why it has such a sweet sound.
Steve -- Yes, I noticed the difference in barrels also. I mentioned this to my repair tech and he said that a tech who is really good with clarinets should be able to make or modify a barrel to work on a Couesnon.
My tech is very impressed with the quality and craftmanship of the Couesnon. He also feels that I stumbled upon a real find.
Roger
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-06-17 18:38
Roger,
As far as I remember, all the couesnon's I've seen are the same dark reddish colour. Is this rosewood or grenadilla that hasn't been stained?
The first time I saw one, that's what I assumed.
I must admit that it's a beautiful clarinet. The company is a lot smaller now but I think they still make brass instruments.
Steve
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-17 19:34
I've restored (and henceforth sold) three Couesnon Monopole Conservatoires clarinets thus far, and I have a fourth at home 'waiting in the wings'. Although two of the completed ones had an additional (7th) ring, otherwise all four are/have been thoroughly conventional, Boehm instruments of dark-stained grenadilla wood (not unstained, not rosewood) -- also, all came supplied with two barrels, all unmarked and typically 64mm/66mm. The three I sold all played very well, roughly comparable to the R-13s I've tried. I've also owned a Monopole alto sax, very nice though not quite up to Mark VI standards (but darned close). As I understand it, in the brass world the Couesnon flugelhorns are considered to be about the best available.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-06-17 20:11
David,
Were they really as black as an average clarinet or did they have a reddish tinge?
I've only seen three. One I bought from the US, another lent to me by a french guy at work (I'm in Italy) and the third advertised on Ebay in France.
The darkest one is the clarinet I bought - black with just a hint of red. The others were most definitely dark reddish in colour.
Perhaps, the clarinets exported to the USA were stained more than the European ones. Just a thought.
Steve
PS The Couesnon on Ebay.fr didn't sell. There seems to be a glut of second hand clarinets and he was asking way too much.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-17 20:32
Steve,
My Couesnon Monopoles were/are all the typical dark black color. Keep in mind that many older instruments, if neglected or stored for many years, will dry out and the resulting bone-dry grenadilla takes on a reddish tinge. Very attractive, but as soon as the bore is oiled (as it darn well better be prior to any further use!) the dark black color returns. I'm sure many folks have been fooled into bidding on auction sites for what look like rosewood clarinets, only to discover that they're just dried-out grenadilla (ask me how I know.....)
On the other hand, regarding Roger's rosewood bell, perhaps some French makers of the 40's/50's/60's offered rosewood bells as an option, as for instance I have a Thibouville Freres clarinet from sometime in that era, that was standard dark grenadilla EXCEPT for the bell, which is a very attractive rosewood (it now resides at the end of my "A" clarinet).
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-06-17 20:54
Thanks David, I didn't know that.
My own Couesnon has received liberal apllications of my own bore oils and then the famous 'Doctor's oil' so I'll wait and see.
We often talk about bore oils for the inside, but may I ask what you recommend for cleaning and protecting the exterior?
Regards,
Steve
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-17 21:34
Steve, I usually clean and polish the exterior of a wood clarinet using the very same Doctor's Bore Treatment, or sometimes I'll substitute pure almond oil if I run out of the Doc's magic potion. Use a soft cotton cloth and rub and rub and rub, being careful not to break the needle springs (I'm assuming the keys have been removed and the posts still attached to the clarinet --- you don't want to get anything on the pads, right?)
Polishing of the keywork has already been discussed to death in an earlier thread, so I won't comment.
On many old clarinets I've gotten, I first remove all the keywork then put all the clarinet wood parts in a zip-lock bag filled with the appropriate bore oil, and let the wood absorb the oil inside and out for a week or so. If the screws are rusted and I can't remove some/all of the keywork, I'll just put the entire clarinet, keys and all, into the Oily Baggie because oftern the bore oil immersion also helps loosen the rusty screws.
If the wood is indeed dried-out grenadilla, just oiling the inside bore will not change the exterior appearance --- you have to oil the OUTSIDE as I have described (the main motivation is, of course, to protect the wood).
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-06-17 22:19
Thanks for the advice. I'll try oiling the outside as well. I don't understand this fascination with almond oil. Is it just fashionable recently?
The three oils often discussed are almond, olive and peanut (groundnut). I don't use olive oil because it's thick and I don't want my clarinets to smell like salads. I have no idea where to find almond oil here, so I use peanut oil. It's thin, doesn't have a strong smell and is absorbed easily. I once read an interesting article about its use on clarinets, but can't remember where.
As for polishing the keywork, I've wasted far too much time on that!
Regards,
Steve
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-24 15:14
Just a follow up to confirm that my Couesnon's bell is indeed rosewood. If you look closely at the wood and grain it's easy to tell that the bell is made from a different type of wood than the grenadilla body. My repair tech confirmed for me that it's rosewood. The grenadilla sections (barrel and joints) have a typical black color.
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2005-06-25 17:08
Speaking of which, the repair tech said my 1928 Buffet clarinets have rosewood bells, since the bells have such a reddish tinge as compared to the shiny black on the bodywork. Can anyone verify this?
Is the 1928 Buffet clarinet made out of M'pingo or Ebony? The clarinet body was so shiny that for a moment people thought it was a plastic clarinet.
Chan
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Author: Del Binari
Date: 2005-12-19 20:31
I saw a Couesnon "requinta" about $70 before bidding closed on ebay.
What was it?
Based on what have been reading here it seems it's not wise to take chances on ebay, when you don't know what you are dealing with. ;^)
I'm trying to learn as much as I can about good quality clarinet options before I upgrade by daughter's instrument. BTW she tried a couple of E11's and didn't seem to like them. (she used her own mp & #3 ricos - yeah I know, I have picked up enough info here and ordered some vandoren reeds and a new Fobes Debut mp for her to try - she uses an old Selmer HS* that was her mom's and she likes it. But it is chipped on the inside edge and I think it is contributing to a fuzzy sound)
Thx in advance for ahy help here.
Rgds,
Ed
Parent of a Student
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-12-19 21:29
>>I saw a Couesnon "requinta" about $70 before bidding closed on ebay.
>>What was it?
Was the ad in french? Perhaps they meant 'requinto'. I believe that is an Eb clarinet. Probably worth an awful lot more than $70.
Steve
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2005-12-19 22:27
A lot of older clarinets from the late 19th to early 20th centuries have a lighter coloured wooden bells, and these are usually painted black.
Maybe the higher quality grenadilla blanks were reserved for bodies and the lower quality grenadilla was used for bells (and grenadilla can be any colour from a lightish reddy-brown looking very much like rosewood, which it is part of the same family, to jet black) - some even had a bit of the light sapwood by the lower bell ring - an old Hawkes&Son simple system C clarinet that belonged to a friend of mine's granddad was like this.
But I do know someone that has an old one-piece bodied Couesnon ( - 'Queno' or 'Quay-no' as I fairly recently discovered the real pronunciation) - not sure what model but it has an extra throat A lever for RH finger 1 (a bit like the extra Bb lever on flutes), and my old sax teacher had a covered hole version (but 2-piece body) with pearl touches.
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Author: Del Binari
Date: 2005-12-20 04:34
Steve,
If you are right, then someone got a deal.
"Couesnon Wood Eb clarinet requinta"
"This is a used, vintage Couesnon Eb soprano clarinet. Grenadilla(?) wood body, bell, barrel, and mouthpiece. Will need a repadding. No cracks, splits, gouges or other undue wear on clarinet itself. Some toothmarking on the mouthpiece. Wooden case could use some TLC, but is in excellent working condition, and holds the instrument securely and all three latches close and hold positively.This would be a fabulous instrument for the clarinettist or doubler on your holiday shopping list. No reserve, no returns, no foolin' bid away"
It sold for $105.50.
I'm not sure if this link will work since the auction is over.
eBay Link
If I knew more about clarinets I may have tried to get it, but right now my aim is to get a quality instrument for my daughter at a great price, it would be easy to start buying and trading, but I don't think I have the time to do it right and probably would get burned. I'll leave that to you experts.
Merry Xmas,
Ed
Parent of a Student
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