 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Gene
Date: 2005-06-13 18:55
I asked this once along time ago which one that were wood and loud I think they had to be tweeked to play in tune.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-13 20:20
I'm sorry, what was the question?
Boosey & Hawkes clarinets are big-bore, as are Leblanc Pete Fountain, and the older Conns as Roger noted. I believe Peter Eaton makes a big-bore model (and possibly Howarth?).
Some were wood, some were hard rubber, they play the same (IMHO). Some play pretty well in tune as is, some (probably most) have to be 'tweaked' for intonation.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-06-13 21:00
Buffet also made a slightly larger bore in the 60's. It measures .585-.588 Dia. which is only about .010 larger than the smaller bores. What are the reasons that a larger bore of only 010-.015 would cause tunning or intonation problems any more than the very slightly smaller bores!?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-13 21:11
I've been able to get medium-large bore (.593") Boosey & Hawkes clarinets to play reasonably well in tune with judicious moderate tonehole undercutting, raising of pad heights, and sometimes the addition of a vent hole on the bell to raise flat low E/F. Perhaps if the factory had done these things, large-bore clarinets might not have developed their reputation for poor intonation?
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Author: Gene
Date: 2005-06-13 23:41
What specific brand and model would be the loudest or have the largest bore?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-13 23:49
Loudest? Mostly a function of the player, mouthpiece, reed, and amplification system.
Largest bore of any production clarinet is supposedly the Boosey & Hawkes Symphony 1010 at about .600" (.603"?), was used by many famous British symphony players who were, I think, more noted for their fluid sound than for excessive volume.
If loud is mostly what you care about, check out The Doctor's "Power Barrel" on this BB.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-14 12:36
Gene,
I'm curious why you're placing so much emphasis on a clarinet being the loudest or having the biggest bore. What's the point?
One doesn't need a big bore clarinet in order to play jazz or be able to use a clarinet in a big band. Jazz clarinetists typically use a wide selection of clarinet brands and models just as jazz saxophonists use a wide range of saxophones. Some jazz clarinetists use set ups that are similar to what a classical player might use while others might use a more open type of mouthpiece. It's very individual. In the final analysis it comes down to the individual player making the most of his or her equipment.
Having said that, there are some tricks that one can do to tweak their set up in order to have a greater level of projection for playing in a large jazz ensemble such as having cork pads in the clarinet's upper joint, using a mouthpiece made from extremely high quality hard rubber (such as Morgan or Zinner), a real silver ligature, etc. These suggestions are my personal opinion. Other players might have different opinions. If you still need more raw power there is The Doctor's "Power Barrel" that David mentioned.
Personally, I think that it's more important to have a beautiful clarinet sound and good intonation & control than to simply push for more power. If you have a good sound, you can always mike your clarinet in order to have enough volume to play in a loud band AND sound really good. I get enough projection from my set up to play clarinet unmiked in a big band. However, when I use clarinet in a band with amplified instruments (such as playing fusion jazz or R&B) I have to mike my clarinet.
Roger
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-06-14 14:46
Your set up can make as much difference as the bore of the instrument. Kaspar mouthpieces often give a bit more volume to the sound. A power barrel, or a Moennig tapered barrel with a good mouthpiece can make almost any clarinet sound "fuller."
I'll add the Leblanc LL to the Wood version of the Leblanc Pete Fountain. These both play very well in tune. Leblanc has a reputation for good intonation on their professional instruments. I've owned both these models and found it to be true. I prefered the LL over the Pete Fountain. The tone was richer and it had a slight bit more resistance. Sounded great on big band and jazz and klezmer.
But, for the most part, I'd work with what I have and try to develop a big, large sound. Practice pushing the air totally through the instrument and having a well developed embouchure. Make nice round tones that are in tune. Then move to bigger bore if you still want to do so.
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Author: graham
Date: 2005-06-14 15:17
unfortunately, many of the British players of the last generation did have an enormous sound, but that was to do with their taste in playing, and ever wider lays, rather than the bore of the instrument. Old 15mm bore clarinets tend to play softer than modern 14.6mm ones. The increase in bore dimension between the narrowest and widest available is only about 4%, so the equation of wide with loud, as one might expect from a brass instrument, is misguided.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-06-14 17:38
All of the above say it very well, I agree. I own several 15.0 mm cylindrical bores, Leblanc and Selmer and yes they CAN [with "jazz" mps] play loudly and softly [as desired]. Some of the newer poly-cylindricals/conicals may have a "taper" from 15 to 14.8 [typically], more [IMHO] for 12ths tuning reasons than as a jazz horn. Old metals are frequently advertised as jazz cls, my Bettoney made and a ?White-King-Cleveland? made "Victory" are [only] 14.8 mm at their body's-top. I believe their main claim to fame is as "showy antiques". Today's thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2005-06-15 14:46
I've recently tried the new Vandoren M30 mouthpiece. It has a big and flexible tone like a lot of jazz mouthpieces. You might even try something as simple as a mouthpiece.
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-06-15 15:07
A loud clarinet should really not be a concern for playing jazz. I have never played a jazz engagement in any size venue that did not have at least one microphone available. It's better to let the speakers do the volume work and you focus on making music.
That said, has anyone noticed a difference in TONE between a big bore and medium bore clarinet?
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
www.SouthBayWinds.com
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-15 16:09
The larger bore clarinets I've been able to play tend to have a darker and fatter sound. But, my experience with them is limited.
As an aside, is there a generally accepted measurement of where a large bore clarinet starts? I suspect that it's relative. But, what's a reasonable ballpark number? For example, is .584 generally considered to be a large bore?
Thanks, Roger
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-06-15 21:32
I prefer the Metrics, the conversion factor is 25.4 mm/inch. I've always considered 15.0 [.590] and higher as large-bore, the mediums seem to be between 14.75 and 14.95, with the small bores 14.7mm or less. With the now-frequent polycyl/conical enlargement of the top of the U J, prob. "generalities" of bore character should be based on measurement at the bottom of the U J. Comments? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-06-16 02:33
GoatTnder,
Re: "has anyone noticed a difference in TONE between a big bore and medium bore clarinet?".... the answer is yes; e.g., IMO Artie Shaw had a far superior tone before he switched to a smaller bore instrument (to play with his Gramercy5).
But perhaps other changes that affected the tone quality were made to his equipment at the same time as the switch to a smaller bore, making it difficult to be absolutely certain.
Regards,
Hans
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