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 third ring for left hand
Author: rholts 
Date:   2005-06-10 02:32

Many years ago I saw clarinets with six rings instead of five and I was told what their purpose is. (This is not counting the ring on the thumb hole on the bottom.) Now, later in life, I am returning to playing for my own enjoyment and have acquired a Selmer Centered Tone horn, (circa late 1950's) which has the six rings. Can anyone remind me of the use and purpose of this ring? Thanks.



Post Edited (2005-06-10 02:38)

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Bob Phillips 
Date:   2005-06-10 04:16

The third ring manages the articulated G# mechanism --it works like a saxophone. You can leave the G#/C# key down when you put down the fingers of your right hand. This facilitates things like the B-C# trill (=F-G# in the Clarion register).

Notice that the pad for the G# tone hole is on top of the instrument and that the tone hole passes through the center tenon and the socket in the lower joint. Notice, too, that the pad closes when the right hand rings are pressed --if the mechanism is properly adjusted. Since the right hand rings also close the Eb/Bb auxilliary pad on the upper joint (through the bridge mechanism), the articulated G# provides another stinkin' place where the mechanism can get out of whack.

Have a great time with your return to playing.

Bob Phillips

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: rholts 
Date:   2005-06-10 04:51

Thanks for a great explanation. Some of it is starting to come back now. Having a lot of fun playing music with the grandchildren.

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Liquorice 
Date:   2005-06-10 06:59

This ring probably also allows you to play C-Eb/G-Bb just by removing the LH middle finger.

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: David Peacham 
Date:   2005-06-10 08:22

Surely Liquorice's explanation is the only correct one.

I don't see what the third ring has to do with the articulated G#. This is activated by the right-hand rings.

-----------

If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.

To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.


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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Hank Lehrer 2017
Date:   2005-06-10 11:24

Hi,

I can't see how Bob Phillips' explanation on the articulated G# has anything to do with the third finger (forked) Eb/Bb on a FB clarinet. The third finger ring does exactly as Licquorice has outlined. There is another banana key on the lower section that will also play a C#/G# on a FB. Hey, maybe my Selmer Series 9 FB is all wrong?

HRL

BTW You give up the long fingering for F6 with the articulated G# and probably several others as Bob has outlined.



Post Edited (2005-06-10 11:35)

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: BobD 
Date:   2005-06-10 12:32

Did I see a hole in the tenon of a Pete Fountain LeBlanc horn or was it my imagination?

Bob Draznik

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Don Berger 
Date:   2005-06-10 13:49

Yes you did, Bob D, that is at least Selmer's , Leblanc's, Buffet's method of including the artic. C#/G# in the fingering system of their soprano clarinets. It needs proper assembly-location of the UJ with the LJ, [bridge key "match-up"] but does produce a far better tonality of those notes [by better location of that tone hole] and improve B and Bb [et al] facility with C# [and their 12ths] with only a few drawbacks. Yes, the "extra, 7th" ring allows the use of a "fork" fingering to produce [ a clean] Eb/Bb, a somewhat useful addition to the other 3 fingerings, banana and lower trill keys and the " 1 and 1" [both first fingers] which I prefer on bass cl, as the fork in not available there.. I have at least 5 cls, sop, alto, bass with combinations of these additions [and the other 2] which I learned-about as a kid, my 1st good cl was a P-M Full Boehm. The artic, and the fork are "standard" additions to the Pete Fountain cl series, and other combinations of the 4 are [still?] available from the 3 makers, I dont know about Yamaha, but they prob. do also. Long-winded addition to the above. Don

Thanx, Mark, Don

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Bob Phillips 
Date:   2005-06-11 15:40

Sorry about the reference to the right hand rings; my writing was unclear.

In the low register, the C# pinky key or the upper sliver key open the C# pad. Pressing any of the rings on the right hand closes the C#.

At the same time, pressing any of the lower rings will (through the bridge mechanism) close the the pad between the upper rings of the left hand AND the small pad between the lower rings of the left hand.

That is the implementation on my Buffet.

Bob Phillips

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Firebird 
Date:   2005-06-11 16:17

Isn't the mechanism supposed to be found on really old clarinets only? Like my 1928 Buffet pair.

Chan

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Hank Lehrer 2017
Date:   2005-06-11 16:22

Firebird,

I have a Selmer Series 9 FB (except for no low Eb so a purist would say "not FB") and I had and sold a Selmer Series 10S a few years ago with all the FB keys. The 9 was probably made in the 1960s and the 10S in the next decade.

HRL

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Alphie 
Date:   2005-06-11 19:46

Note that rholts does not describe a full-boehm instrument. He's describing a clarinet with an additional ring for fork Bb5. I'm not convinced that this ring allows you to play a proper Eb4 since the chalumeau register is fuzzy with cross fingerings. You may enlighten me on that one. To be a "full-boehm" by definition this ring should be there as well as the articulated c#-g#, the low Eb key, the extra sliver key and a LH Ab-Eb.

The whole point with the full-boehm is to be able to transpose A-clarinet parts and these extra keys make this somewhat easier since you have more possibilities. For the same reason the Bb bass clarinet was equipped with the same additional keys except for the cross Bb5. Probably because the written music for bass clarinet in A is not really technically demanding.

Alphie



Post Edited (2005-06-11 19:51)

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Hank Lehrer 2017
Date:   2005-06-11 20:16

Alphie,

I also have an older Selmer that has the 6th ring and none of the other keys at all. I only prize and thus use the forked Eb/Bb only for very difficult technical passages. The intonation is not the best of all the Eb/Bb fingerings available.

HRL

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Alphie 
Date:   2005-06-11 20:39

The fork Bb5 ring is a brilliant key in many ways and I wish it was standard on all instruments. I'm not sure if the Eb4 is a good note. Tell me!?

Alphie

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Don Berger 
Date:   2005-06-11 22:42

IMHO, Alphie, you are right. Actually in my experience, ANY "fork" fingering is [likely] less good than its "competition", such as the B nat [3]/ F#[5] [which few of us prob. consider to be a "fork"]. In the same way the F#[4] is a fork also due to the [open] left thumb tone hole being above it. As I see it, the forks have great fingering-convenience and MAY suffer in tonality, still very usefu, at least to me. Comments/corrections? , Donl

Thanx, Mark, Don

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 Re: third ring for left hand
Author: Ken Mills 
Date:   2005-06-11 23:40

Dear Youall and Pete Fountain: Instead of the left hand forked fingering to get the Bb (clarion note on top of the staff like the sax or flute system, in my system) I like to use a biz key like the sax. But then its main vent on the front of the horn will sound quite a bit sharp because that vent is supposed to be accompanied by the closure of the right hand first finger in the 1-and-1 fingering for that note. Then I found out that when the sliver key tonehole is filled (this is where we have three holes opposite each other in the bore, making it look pretty rough) that it will make the note in the area's other vents go flat, just what we need as a correction! Almost. Watchout for the side trill key to get that note too, you might need a needle file to raise its pitch. I know: Just build a new clarinet. So I cannot use the 1-and-1 anymore (like the Germans), but I do not like too many holes in the clarinet (as well as the one added by the forked mechanism). I have a reference from Scientific American that the instrument will sound better with no holes, but then you could not change notes. Too much tradition against me, Mr. Science

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