 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-03-04 22:02
Looking for a way to prevent tarnishing of my silver plated keys, I checked on this site, and with a specialized site on silver. I learn that rubber is a tarnish-promoting agent, and that one should not, for example, keep a pencil with an eraser in the clarinet case. And then I thought, what are most of our mouthpieces made of ... ? Can any chemist explain why hard vulcanite does not affect silver, or does it?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-03-04 22:22
beejay, it'd the sulfur in the rubber that promotes tarnishing. I'd suspect that the levels of sulfur in hard rubber is smaller than that in soft rubbers.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-03-04 22:47
If you leave a rubber band on a silver plated clarinet for a couple days, it takes the silver off. Found this out the hard way.
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Author: J. Butler
Date: 2000-03-04 23:21
I use the 3M silver strips in my clarinet cases that have either silver plate or nickel silver keys. They keep (prolong) the keys from tarnishingYou should be able to get them at any jewelers supply. I actually found some at a store called Bed, Bath, and Beyond if there is one in your area. They carry, at least in this area, the Haggerty strips which work just as well.
J. Butler
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-03-05 01:24
I've been using those 3M strips for about two years now, in closed cases, with silver-plated saxes and metal clarinets. The strips seem to work well. I like not having to polish the instruments so much. Excessive polishing can wear down the thin silver plating, besides being a nuisance, so I think it's worthwhile to prevent the tarnish in the first place. The strips are cheap, too, compared to silver polish. But even with those strips in the case, direct contact with rubber will still put a black mark on silver.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-05 02:18
I had a post composed and aohell cut me off! Yes, its the sulfur that forms black silver sulfide [AgS]. The S in the hard rubber is the "crosslinking" agent which hardens it to a thermoset polymer, so it is unavailable to tarnish the silver. Of course few hard rubber clarinets have silver plated keys. Elemental sulfur can be present as a vapor in air, but usually the tarnish comes for hydrogen sulfide [H2S] and/or sulfur di or tri oxide [SO2/SO3]. 'Nuff chemistry for today? Don
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Author: Joe Vacc
Date: 2000-03-05 18:34
I have found a silver polish that greatly prolongs the length of time it takes my clarinet to tarnish. The brand is "Cape Cod". I used it some time ago with great results. I found this polish at my local hardware store. The address of the company is:
Cape CodŽ Polish Company, Inc.
Dennis, MA 02638
(508) 385-5099
P.S. My clarinet is not worth a dime, so I was not scared to put this stuff on it! If yours is you may want to call them and ask what their anti-tarnishing formula is.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-03-05 21:32
I like the sound of those anti-tarnish strips, but unable to find them here in Paris. Does anyone know where they can be obtained in Europe. I keep my clarinet twinkling with a very soft jeweller's cloth (the non-impregnated variety). Nevertheless, I noticed some tarnish on some hard-to-reach keywork, and my reaction was like the handsome prince in Bernstein's Candide -- "oh my Gosh, is that a pimple?"
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-03-06 19:51
Don's analysis of the chemistry is exquisite. Of course, he's a chemist, so you expect good information from him on this subject.
From the environmental engineering and clarinet playing perspective, I also put in a "no" vote for SOFT rubber items (erasers, bands, etc.) in the case, a "yes" vote for the tarnish prevention strips (I found the Haggerty brand works very well for me, just replace the strip every 6 months or so and keep the horn indoors at all times. No mess, no fuss.), a "no" vote on rouge cloths or other abrasive tarnish removal technique (it literally sands away your precious silver), and a gargantuan "NO, NEVER" vote on the chlorinated hydrocarbon solvent based (trichloroethylene, perchloroethylene) chemicals. Sure, they work fantastically well. But, there is a price to pay for it - a big one. They are well known cancer causing agents and they can't be easily flushed out or dissolved in water. The partial solubility of these mean nasty chemicals can be as high as a couple of billions of gallons (4 times that for liters, of course) of water for every few drops of these chemicals. Basically, you will permanently pollute the local lake, river, or underground reservoir that you and your city depend on for water if you carelessly use these chemicals and then toss them out.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-06 20:06
Thank you, Paul, I'm actually a chem engr. [usually considered to be a plumber who has heard of chemistry!!], and a mediocre musician. Yes, I vote for tarnish strips, and against the use of chlorinated solvents which pollute water supplies and are rough on our ozone layer. Its a chomical world, isn't it? Don
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Author: Joe Vacc
Date: 2000-03-07 00:57
Thanks to Paul for the information about the chlorinated hydrocarbon solvent based (trichloroethylene, perchloroethylene) chemicals. Not being a chemist, I am a little confused. The product I refered to, the Cape Cod brand metal polishing cloths, has no ingredient information other than "contains petroleum distillate". There are no warnings or disposal guidelines on the container. Do these cloths contain those chemicals? How is the lay person to know?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-03-07 02:55
Joe Vacc wrote:
<br>-------------------------------
<br>Thanks to Paul for the information about the chlorinated hydrocarbon solvent based (trichloroethylene, perchloroethylene) chemicals.
<br>-----
<br>I wrote a moment ago that perc & trichlor were banned for home use in the USA. I was wrong - they're still allowed in low concentrations for spot removers.
<br>
<br>Perc is a suspected carcinogen.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-07 15:42
Good info re: perhalogenated caarbon compounds [chlorinated in particular], not at all good for people, just dern good solvents! The petroleun distillates referred to are generally in the boiling range of light kerosene, and have some similarity to diesel or jet fuel. They may be distilled [fractionated is the word I prefer] directly from crude oil or "wet" natural gas, and treated for color, odor and sulfur compound removal before use. The best of these petroleum fractions is "heavy alkylate", a byproduct of high octane gasoline mfgr., which is very "clean" and has low odor, and is sold to "charcoalers" as fire starter liquid. 'Nuff pet. refining for today?? Don
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Author: paul
Date: 2000-03-07 17:16
Perc is used in clothes dry cleaning. Yep, that's the solvent that's used instead of water. Tric is used to clean finely machined parts, like jet engine turbine blades. Both are carcinogens, especially when ingested into the human body through common sources, such as drinking water. Worst of all, there is absolutely no way you could drink enough clean water in your lifetime to get even one drop of it out.
I think Don and I blew the rest of the folks away on this subject. Too bad I can't play the clarinet this well.
Again, thanks Don for the information.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-03-07 17:52
Right, Paul, we are just passing along info gained from our occupations of many years in response to well-put, common questions. The difficulty comes in producing a "layman's" explanation of quite complex subjects. A good example of that is your success in the reed-rush commentary above, which fills a gap in my knowledge!, thanx, Don
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-03-08 03:09
Don't underestimate the health dangers of carcinogens even in small small short term exposures. It can all collectively slam you later on. Seven and a half years of my Coast Guard career was in polution investigation, revention and clean-up (cut my teeth on the Campeche oil spill in S. Texas). The more they learn about these chemicals, the lower the acceptible exposure gets. What was concidered OK a few years ago is called massive exposure now. The bad thing is they aren't always clearly identified in the "contents" label or hidden by a trade name like "with super TXZ". That sweet smell at the gas pump or in a can of shoe polish is usually benzene. I stand up wind at the pump and polish my shoes out on the porch now. I've seen too many of my old buddies, some in their twenties with leukemia etc.
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Author: Beejay
Date: 2000-03-09 08:23
I should have looked in the archives. There was a discussion aeons ago about vulcanite and silver. Still, this has been a fascinating discussion.
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