 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2005-06-09 23:33
I'm just starting on bass clarinet, and it's a school owned instrument... and the peg leaves something to be desired (no rubber tip so it doesn't help me)... I began using a strap
How much weight should the strap take off of my hands?
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-06-10 02:15
How is a peg unusable if it doesn't have the rubber tip on it? I think the tip on my peg wore down to the metal and it works just fine for me. I don't use a neck strap either.
If you use a strap and no peg, the strap will take a good deal of weight off your hands. Although, I'd rather have a peg so there is no weight! Yay for no weight!
Does the school have another peg you can use? Is it possible to put one of those pencil eraser cover things on the pegs end? I haven't tried this because mine is still fine, but it may work if you find the right eraser cover.
Good luck with bass!!!
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2005-06-10 02:20
I have been using a strap but it is just so different compared to sax, sax it holds most of the weight but, when I use it on bass it hold very little bass
Anyone out their actually use a strap?
Thanks for the suggestion Carrie, I prolly will do that at some point
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Author: clarinetdaddy
Date: 2005-06-10 02:49
Hello, Yes, I use a strap but I also have a peg. I don't think I could play bass without the peg. I have a bass that goes down Low "C". I usually play the bass more between my legs, or under the chair so that the sound opens up more. The strap just keeps the bass more stable for my mouth. I do hope all works out for you. Also you might think about using a cello pad or what a string bass might use. It is a small round pad that the peg will fit into and will not slide on the floor.
Clarinetdaddy
clarinetdaddy
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing".
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-06-10 03:03
I'm new to playing bass clarinet, but I did learn something by trying out a plastic student model and then purchasing a used wooden BC.
The student model took a bass clarient neckstrap, with two hooks.
My LeBlanc does not have a second ring on the thumb rest to accomodate the second neck strap hook. So, I use a saxophone neckstrap.
While sitting I use the neckstrap and peg, though I'm not sure how much good the neck strap does. I'm not altogether happy with the angle of the mouthpiece and am constantly adjusting.
One way or another your thumb needs support. If you play standing up you definitely will need the neck strap.
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Author: CJB
Date: 2005-06-10 12:57
I can see how having no tip can allow the instrument to slip on the peg more than is desirable. The contra I occaisionally have the misfortune to play was like this, I just added the cork from a wine bottle to the end and it works fine.
I really wouldn't want any significant proportion of the weight of a bass (mine is a low C) either on my thumb or round my neck.
Of course you need to experiment with finding the right cork but I found that one from a good Merlot gave me the darkest tone
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-10 16:24
I only use a strap, except when I install my low-C kitchen plumbing extension (adding 8 inches to the length of the instrument) at which time I have to rest the bell on the floor and play it that way. But I've never felt comfortable playing a peg, it makes me feel that I'm stuck in one place, glued to the floor. Bass clarinet ain't THAT heavy -- a good strap works for me.
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2005-06-10 16:55
I'm with you in that being stuck in one place feeling Dave... I have a bad wrist so I think peg is the way it is gonna have to go though.
Maybe I'll get stronger wrist that way...
Thanks everyone
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-06-10 17:21
I think the rubber tip on a bass clarinet peg is an abomination. Who ever saw a cello player with a rubber tip on their end-pin!
My advice: Remove the rubber and grind or file your peg to a nice sharp point. Advantages of this are acoustical connection to the (hopefully) wood stage floor you are playing on, no possibility of slippage (due to a dusty floor, for instance), nice defensive weapon if a nasty flute player turns around after you flub a high hard one!
When I play a cathedral gig, with a marble floor, I just bring one of my car floor mats in with me; playing on a carpet you can just invert the peg--put the blunt end down. Most concert venues that have a floor they want to protect from end pins will supply you with a wooden thingamajig to stick your point into.
I've always felt that the bass clarinet makers had no real connection or respect for the pro players of the instrument; they call it a "harmony" or (worse) "background" instrument, fit it with a thumb rest that is totally out of touch with the need to stabilize the instrument with the right thumb, and now they put a silly rubber ball at the bottom of the whole package! (Who wants to be a monochirid?)
A number of years ago I was invited to meet with a couple of Yamaha suits visiting Washington from Hammamatsu with a prototype, presumably to tell them how great their new model bass clarinet was. We spent a couple of hours together, and I critiqued their instrument--hitting on some of the above issues. They took copious notes, thanked me profusely and rewarded me with a "Y" tie pin! When the instrument in question came on the market, it was exactly the same as the prototype--not a single one of my suggestions had been heeded!
Post Edited (2005-06-10 19:21)
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-06-10 17:23
I think the rubber tip on a bass clarinet peg is an abomination. Who ever saw a cello player with a rubber tip on their end-pin!
My advice: Remove the rubber and grind or file your peg to a nice sharp point. Advantages of this are acoustical connection to the (hopefully) wood stage floor you are playing on, no possibility of slippage (due to a dusty floor, for instance), nice defensive weapon if a nasty flute player turns around after you flub a high hard one!
When I play a cathedral gig, with a marble floor, I just bring one of my car floor mats in with me; playing on a carpet you can just invert the peg--put the blunt end down. Most concert venues that have a floor they want to protect from end pins will supply you with a wooden thingamajig to stick your point into.
I've always felt that the bass clarinet makers had no real connection or respect for the pro players of the instrument; they call it a "harmony" or (worse) "background" instrument, fit it with a thumb rest that is totally out of touch with the need to stabilize the instrument with the right thumb, and now they put a silly rubber ball at the bottom of the whole package! (Who wants to be a monochirid?)
A number of years ago I was invited to meet with a couple of Yamaha suits visiting Washington from Hammamatsu with a prototype, presumably to tell them how great their new model bass clarinet was. We spent a couple of hours together, and I critiqued their instrument--hitting on some of the above issues. They took copious notes, thanked me profusely and rewarded me with a "Y" tie pin! When the instrument in question came on the market, it was exactly the same as the prototype--not a single one of my suggestions had been heeded! no more free advice for instrument makers!
Post Edited (2005-06-10 17:24)
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-06-10 17:52
Very much like clarinetdaddy, I use a strap and peg and tilt the bottom of my instrument under my chair.
But, until I got my new instrument a few years back, I was strictly using a neckstrap and had been doing so for umpteen years, primarily because the instrument I owned had had the peg holder removed before it ever became mine. I don't know why. I managed fairly well, but now prefer using both, especially since my new instrument is low C and a bit heavier.
So, what is wrong with a black rubber ball or some other rubber tip? Not aesthetically pleasing? That's a matter of opinion and few people are looking at the bottom of your peg anyway. Besides, it doesn't leave holes in wood or vinyl floors and works on most any surface. Plus, it's a lot easier to drill a hole in a rubber ball than to grind a metal rod to a point.
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Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2005-06-10 19:19
Don Poulsen asks: "So what is wrong with a black rubber ball or some other rubber tip?"
If the rest of you will forgive me for being repetitive I'll try to explain:
1. The rubber device insulates your instrument mechanically (and acoustically) from the stage floor. In a good hall, transmitting your vibrating medium to a wood floor gives you a substantial acoustical edge--and on a relatively inefficient sound generator like a bass clarinet any help you can get is all for the good. To repeat myself--why don't you ever see a cellist with a rubber ball on their end pin?
2. I speak from experience here: a rubber tip on a dusty or slippery floor is sooner or later going to slip on you--in my case, only once, on the opening bars of the "Liebestod"! Talk about feeling like a fool!
3. Anybody who has difficulty grinding or filing a metal rod to a point needs some serious vocational rehab.
So much of the way that bass clarinets are made (and sometimes played) is the result of blindly following what was done (wrong) before. Time to think out of the box, my friend!
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2005-06-10 19:39
No, I don't need vocational rehab. I'm just lazy and too cheap to buy a rasp.
And why don't cellists have rubber balls on their end pins? I would guess that a major reason would be that, at the angle a cello is held, there is a greater possibility of it slipping, especially since a cello is held, if at all, only lightly with one hand high on the neck and a pin stabbed into a wooden stage (or one of those boards they use) *would* work better.
As far as the floor aiding the bass clarinet by resonating, I am skeptical. (If someone does an acoustical test that shows that it makes a difference, I'll accept it.) The vibrating medium in the instrument is the reed and the air column. I'll grant that some of the vibration is transmitted through the instrument and even into the floor, but is there enough energy in it to get the air moving in an audible way? As I said, I'm skeptical, but will listen to a reasoned argument.
Nothing against sharp spikes (at least until I get stabbed by one), but I still don't see that either configuration has a large advantage over the other.
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2005-06-10 23:41
I can't comment on the original question regarding which strap is better, but I can comment on floor pegs and replacing the rubber end.
My floor peg had a rubber end on it and somehow it came off. (Could have been a toddler or a dog, not sure. Still waiting to see who needs dental work.) Anyway, my very handy hubby bought a small tub of "rubber dip" at Lowe's and dipped the end of the peg in it, let it dry, then repeated. It made a very nice, unobstrusive end that didn't poke or scratch floors, neither did it impale my foot when I set the bass on it.
As for the enormous rubber ball on the end - that's not for me. If you like those, just buy a .25 cent superball from the grocery store and stab your peg into that. If you go that route, go for glittery. Looks cool on stage!
I much prefer a peg to a neckstrap, and I definitely prefer a rubber end on the peg. I don't feel "anchored" to the floor, if I need to move it around I just lift it up and move it.
Just my humble opinion -
Michelle
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2005-06-10 23:54
Think 'outside the box" for a minute. One member mentioned a bad wrist. I have RA and would have trouble standing, holding my bass even though using a strap. I have a strap, but rely on a floor-peg. What has helped the most, however, was that DS modified the neck of my bass so that it is more of a "Bay clone'. It positions my instrument so that I do not have to stick it under my chair and I can sit more upright in a relaxed posture. Contact DS, or check the archives, for discussions on neck modifications. Although he is getting older and plays on a broomstick (modified to his design) DS is a neat guy to work with and knows what he is doing.
Bob A
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Author: Gardini
Date: 2005-06-11 00:07
check out the outfit Henri Bok uses. I think you can see it on his website. It looks like a old brace & bit handle riding on his sternum. It doesn't look to comfortable to me, but the amazing way he plays you wouldn't guess it hurts.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2005-06-12 03:30
For what it's worth, I've had a fair amount of contact with some high-level professional bass clarinetists (Broadway pits, Lincoln Center, blah-blah-blah) and they're pretty unanimous about double-hook strap AND peg, plus keeping your right foot angled behind the peg so the instrument can't slip backward if the peg loses traction.
The idea is to let the peg & strap anchor & steady the instrument so your hands don't have to do anything but finger the keys. that works fine for me; every now & then I try doing away with the peg, letting the horn rest against the front of the chair seat, but it feels way too unsteady.
I know Louis Sclavis uses a single-hook Ray Hyman strap and no peg, and he's a brilliant player, but I'm not!! so I need all the help I can get!!
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Author: Markael
Date: 2005-06-12 10:19
For some wooden bass clarinets, using a double hook neck strap requires drilling a hole near the thumbrest. When the technician mentioned that obvious point to me, I was reluctant, so I haven't done that.
A good saxophone neckstrap is more substantial and doesn't get tangled, but it does not support the thumb as well, especially when you stand.
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