 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: D
Date: 2005-05-31 18:28
Question for all the doublers,
I need a mouthpiece for my alto sax. The sax is a bog standard Trevor James effort, so nothing stunning.
On the clarinet I play a Vandoren 5RV with the equivalent of about a vandoren 3 or 3.5 reed. Can someone advise on something fairly similar for the sax? I have a more open tipped mouthpiece for the clarinet and don't really like it, so I think I am probably looking for something with a fairly closed tip for the saxaphone as well.
Many thanks
D
Post Edited (2005-05-31 18:32)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-05-31 20:06
What kind of music are you anticipating to play on your alto? Classical/concert band? Hard fusion? Big band? R&B? Unlike clarinet, it's virtually impossible with saxes to play all genres of music on one mouthpiece.
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Author: D
Date: 2005-05-31 20:34
Around the classical to big band end of the spectrum. But more the smooth Glen Millar style than the really harsh raspy sounds.
I like smooth and dark rather than bright.
Thanks for the quick reply by the way.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-05-31 21:47
I play only on refaced mouthpieces so it's hard for me to recommend any stock ones for saxes, but I've heard generally good things about the Eugene Rousseau mouthpieces --- you might check out his available models and try a few, maybe like a JD6 or something? Also, check the SaxOnTheWeb website for probably more advice than you can digest.
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Author: senior
Date: 2005-05-31 23:27
I also play alto sax, and for that smooth dark sound I use a Eugene Rousseau 4R with a JAVA 3 Vandoren reed. The sound can be brightened with the selection of rico select jazz reeds.
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-06-01 01:16
D,
I use a 5RV on clarinet as well (among others), and a stock Selmer C* for alto sax.
I don't make "harsh raspy sounds" so I suppose that might work for you too.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: hartt
Date: 2005-06-01 01:38
D
you may want to consider trying a Clark Fobes Nova moel. Clark offers it in 3 facings.
I use his San Francisco models on my Bb, Eb clarinets and same on my sax's: sop, alto, tenor.
You can contact Clark direct and I'm certain he'll assist you. Very knowledgeable and pleasant to chat with.
He has a web site: www.clarkwfobes.com
and can be reached by phone at: (415) 585-0636
now go practice
regards
dennis
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-06-01 03:29
if you dont want harsh, raspy, bright sounds, and you do want something on the darker side of things i would highly reccomend a larry teal mouthpiece. they have a round chamber as opposed to the square one that the normal selmer c*'s have. i have found that with the c*, particularly on tenor, the higher notes are flat. i do not have this problem with the larry teal mouthpieces so im just assuming it is a flaw in the design or in the particular c* i have. i would also reccomend anything by ralph morgan. his mouthpieces also have a round chamber, which can be either medium or large sized, and produce more of a mellow, round sound than the standard selmers do...for me at least. the morgans are much more hand finished and really are superb mouthpieces. ive gotten favorable results in both classical and jazz/show settings with these two mouthpieces on my super action 80 serie 2.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-01 12:47
I, too, highly recommend Ralph Morgan mouthpieces. I use a 3C (classical) model for all of my playing -- jazz, big band, sax quartet, and classical. It has a big, round, lush, vibrant sound and excellent projection. My 3C holds it's ground in a big band in which the other sax players use various kinds of jazz mouthpieces (both hard rubber and metal). The 5L is another Morgan mouthpiece worth trying. It, too, has a large chamber -- not quite as large as the C model -- and a touch more baffle which gives a slight edge to the sound. It has a big sound that's definitely on the dark side. I consider it to be an excellent general-use saxophone mouthpiece. The Morgan M (medium chamber) models typically have a brighter sound than the L models. The M is a GREAT lead alto type of mouthpiece. It's along the lines of the old Meyer Brothers mouthpieces. Personally, I don't like the M as well on tenor. I prefer a large chamber mouthpiece on that horn. Ralph Morgan also makes what he calls the Excalibur mouthpiece. It comes in medium and large chamber models. This is also an extraordinary mouthpiece. It has very thin chamber walls. This allows it to have some different tonal and performance qualities from his L, M, and C models. It's been my experience that a EL (Excalibur large chamber) mouthpiece combines the big sound of a large chamber mouthpiece with the easy blowing response of a medium chamber.
While the 3C is my mouthpiece of choice, I also have 5L and 5EL mouthpieces. I use them sometimes when I need to adjust my sound for a different type of musical setting. For example, the 5EL would probably work better for me in a blues or R&B band than my trusty 3C. Never the less, the 3C works beautifully for me in all of the ensembles I normally play in.
Hope this helps.
Roger
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Author: William
Date: 2005-06-01 14:26
On my alto sax ("Balanced Action" Selmer), I play on two mouthpieces that could be classified as "cross over" types for both classical and big band. #1--my Gregory Master "Hollywood" model, and #2--my Selmer metal C* "jazz" model. Both have clear, round and focused tambres that can either blend with the ensemble or, with a little push, have that "bite" for solo work. The Selmer C* is slightly more closed at the tip than the Hollywood so the same reeds will not work for both. My ligs are Winslows.
On my tenor sax, I use a Guardala "Studio" model metal with a Winslow lig that produces a good sound for big band, theatre pit orchestral and solo jazz work.
My soprano sax (Selmer S-80) mouthpiece is an Anello which produces a darker sound than the Selmer D which came with the instrument. Again, Winslow ligs.
(There is the most beautiful Cardinal eatting seeds just outside my sliding door--I know this is totally unrelated......but what a sight!!)
Post Edited (2005-06-01 14:33)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-06-01 14:43
For my Mark 6 and Leblanc 100 altos, I prefer my [same] vintage orig. Selmer D over the C* for alto, have an old WW for tenor, and a very "mellow" OLD [big] Martin for bari, its much superior to any "slim-jims" [bright jazz] I've tried and have. Keep trying ! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: D
Date: 2005-06-01 16:37
Good grief! What a lot of information. I shall have to sit down and process it all properly, and then try and see what I can get hold of, I am in the UK so some options are going to be easier than others. I'll make a list and head off to some music shops and trawl the internet, see what is about.
Thank you all so much for your time,
D
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Author: GoatTnder
Date: 2005-06-02 15:18
If I may throw my (late) 2 cents in... I'm playing on a Meyer 7M that's been reshaped inside and out by someone much more qualified than me. If you're willing to go that route, the Meyers are a good quality starting point for a reasonable price. And they're pretty widely available too. For reference sake, my alto is a Conn 20M that is in horrible need of replacement. And, I do both jazz and classical on it.
Andres Cabrera
South Bay Wind Ensemble
www.SouthBayWinds.com
sbwe@sbmusic.org
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Author: D
Date: 2005-06-02 18:01
Thanks,
the Mayer is a make that I can get hold of. I have a catalogue beside me for mail order and that has Mayer, Selmer, Vandoren, Weinberg and Yanagisawa mouthpieces, all of various numbers and lays. Between that and the local shops I think I should be able to find something!
All I have to work on now is exactly what the various companies mean by their numbers and letter which they describe these things by. I think this is where I will be giving in and going to a music shop.
But at least I have a bit more of an idea now.
By the way, does no one like the Vandoren Sax mouthpieces?
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-02 19:22
D,
GoatTnder's suggestion about getting a current production Meyer (made by the Babbitt company) and having it refaced is a good one. Simply put, new Meyer mouthpieces are not as good as the old Meyers (pre-Babbitt). The old Meyers were truly excellent mouthpieces. However, there are several drawbacks to this idea. One drawback is that you'll need to know a good mouthpiece refacer who has the particular knowledge for how to do this. I, personally, would not let any hack who fancies himself to be a mouthpiece refacer do the work. Sadly, a highly respected refacer (JVW) who was great at turning new Meyers into great playing mouthpieces died last year. There are good mouthpiece refacers to be found. It's a matter of finding one who knows his stuff. Personally, I don't think that this is a good way to go for someone new to the saxophone. Another drawback is that besides the cost of the new mouthpiece you'll have the additional cost of the refacing work which could be around $75 or more....depending upon the particular refacer you use. A similar problem exists with the Link mouthpieces made by Babbitt. They are typically not as good as the old Links.
A Morgan M (medium chamber) mouthpiece is much closer to the old Meyer mouthpieces than the current Meyers made by the Babbitt Company.
Vandoren saxophone mouthpieces don't seem to be as commonly used by saxophonists as Vandoren clarinet mouthpieces are by clarinetists.
The most important thing is to TRY A SELECTION of mouthpieces and find one that you really like. It doesn't matter so much what WE like. Our suggestions can be helpful to you only to the extent that you can compile a list of recommended mouthpieces to try out. Really, there is no such thing as a "best" mouthpiece. It's just a matter of personal preference. Finding a mouthpiece that really does it for you comes from trying a selection of mouthpieces and then making a decision.
Finally, it will be helpful to you if you use a mouthpiece comparison chart that translates a facing letter or number into an actual tip opening size for alto sax mouthpieces. The Woodwind and Brasswind web site may have one. Their catalog does. There are other sources as well on the internet. It would probably be best to start with a fairly middle-of-the-road tip opening....perhaps around .070. If you're wanting a more narrow tip opening, perhaps .065 or .062. I would avoid extremes.
Good luck to you! Please let us know how you come out.
Roger
Post Edited (2005-06-02 19:32)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-06-02 19:57
Roger Aldridge wrote:
> A similar problem exists with
> the Link mouthpieces made by Babbitt. They are typically not
> as good as the old Links.
I wanted a back-up alto sax mouthpiece for my treasured Link (Pompano Beach, Florida) mouthpiece.
I tried 6 new Link alto sax moutpieces, 5 were very stuffy with no projection. However the 6th one was excellent - very close to my original.
Perhaps I was lucky, but a good stock Link mouthpiece can be found if you have enough samples to try...GBK
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-03 11:22
GBK,
It's great that you stuck with it and were able to find an exceptional mouthpiece. I've heard similar stories from other players about trying a number of Babbitt Links before finding a really good one. That's why I used the word "typically" in my message. On the other side of the coin, it's sad to think that a less experienced player without your frame of reference about how a "real" Link plays might have taken one of the so-so pieces and not known any better.
I don't use a Link myself. But, one thing I'm curious about is why you spent the time & effort trying all of those stock Links instead of getting a Link faced by Doc Tenney. From what I understand his pieces are excellent.
Roger
Post Edited (2005-06-03 13:29)
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Author: Kel
Date: 2005-06-03 13:00
Hite mouthpieces are hard to find now, but they are excellent sax pieces at very reasonable prices. Should you come across a Hite Artist I suggest you seriously consider it. The Artist Commercial is their all-around mouthpiece with a tip opening of .070. The also made two Artist Classical pieces with smaller tip openings.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-06-03 13:01
Roger: I was going to give the new Babbitt Links a fair try, with a big enough sample pool before going to the custom refacing route. Again, perhaps I was just lucky that out of the first 6, one was quite good.
You are correct - Without a frame of reference about how a very good Link (or other vintage mouthpiece) should sound, many players will settle on a mediocre one, not knowing the real potential of a well made one...GBK
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-03 14:00
GBK,
I guess I'm getting off-topic from D's original message, but I wanted to mention to you that there is a long and excellent thread about Links and quality control at Babbitt on the SOTW Forum in the tenor sax mouthpiece section. The last time I looked it was 11 pages long! It has some technical explainations for why SOME Babbitt Links can be problematic. Never the less, there are messages from players like yourself who were able to find a good one and are quite happy with it. This underscores how important it is to personally test a selection of mouthpieces before buying one. I suspect that there are quite a few players who go by the brand name, such as Meyer or Link, and think that they are getting the same type of mouthpiece that many jazz greats used. Several years ago Ralph Morgan wrote an article for the Saxophone Journal that has an analysis of his comparative measurements of a new Babbitt Meyer and an old Meyer. Ralph found significant differences between the new and old Meyers.
Roger
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-06-03 19:16
Tks, R A, yes there is much info on sax mps "out there". D, you might also wish to consider the offer by Tenorman for faced/refacable alto and tenor "blanks" on the Yahoogroups, MouthpieceWork site. I may ?need? a tenor, myself !! Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: johnsonfromwisconsin
Date: 2005-06-04 17:00
Hey D,
The Vandoren AL3 is without a doubt the easiest stock piece I've ever played as far as tone generation and response. It's quite closed, more so than a C* and has a little longer facing. I prefer it over the S80.
-JfW
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Author: D
Date: 2005-06-04 21:31
Dear All
I have managed to find a local shop which has a fair variety of selmer, vandoren and various other mouthpieces, and actually does allow you to try them! I will be paying them a visit as soon as I can arrange it, I promise to let you all know the results. Thanks so much for all the help and interest, I never thought there would be this many responses or so much interest.
D
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