 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-05-31 21:49
Is there many ppl out there, I guess mostly professional (or not), that play clarinets that are not made by the top 4? Like, who would play on a horn today that was considered top of the line back in the day, like Conn, Moennig brothers, etc. Any of the off the wall "antiques." And how would those instruments compare to today's pro line Buffets and such?
Iiinterestinggg....
--Contragirl
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-05-31 22:23
One of the back-up Eb clarinets I use is a Couesnon (Paris) from the 1940's (?).
It has a comfortable hand postion with the keywork nicely spaced apart, excellent projection, a pleasing tone which is not shrill, and (the best part) the 12ths play surprisingly well in tune...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2005-05-31 22:34
As an "or not" Albert system player, CG, I have several brands other than the Big Four: Prueffer (Oehler system), Moennig Bros., La Croix, Conn, Pedler and four metal ones, two which have no name and two I'm not sure of at the moment. In addition, there are two Eefers, Penzel Mueller and Carl Fischer[?] (the improter), and a C by Whittle. A Carl Fischer low pitch simpile system completes the "collection". The decent Buffets I've seen have so far been out of my price range but I dream of owning one some day.
I do my own repairs and maintenance so they're all in good playing condition and compare favorably to most 'Big Four' student models of today.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-05-31 22:45
Maybe not so much professional. Maybe I mean experienced.
Ron, you have quite a collection. Right now, I just have my Buffet Bb, A, and Eb (the A and Eb I got at awesome prices), 2 metal clarinet (one which needs some fixin, the other will soon be a lamp), my student Bundy, an old Dexter (wah?), and I just bought a white Vito Clari-tone and another old metal clarinet. One day I hope to get some Alberts or Oehlers.
Do you perform on all your instruments, or do you have a preference to which you use? And I guess to what kind of music, as well.
--CG
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-05-31 22:58
What a fine collection, Ron, much fun isn't it? I also have a Pruefer, a 19/7, and 3 Full Boehms, 2 Selmers [a 1920? and an RI 1933 ]. The best FB player still is my P - M 1920's F B, for which I have recently improved its upper 12ths, by barrel experimentation. Yes, there were some good ones back in the dark ages ! Keep collecting, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2005-05-31 23:40
My 'collection' is rather meager compared to some I've seen. My preference is improv playing and for that I favor the [Preufer] Oehler system. For a really fun time I love to get out the simple system which I find surprisingly easy to noodle around on and it has good intonation too. The best one, intonation-wise, is the Moennig Bros. (which is undergoing a little key-fabrication rehab right now). I bought the Moennig when I was in Germany (bandsman, military service) so it has some sentimental value as well as being a good player. The metal Alberts are okay for emergency backup... I mean, they sound all right but I like the feel of the wood or plastic bodies better. I play with friends at get-togethers, ocassionally with my wife ('cello) and a pianist friend for 'special events', and sometimes at church with various ensembles and once in a great while solo (piano or guitar accompaniment).
- ron b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2005-06-01 04:36
My C clarinet is a Penzel Mueller. I'll be using it again this summer in NYC to play the Alberto Ginastera: Variaciones Concertantes, with the Naumberg Orchestra. I've really never played a better C clarinet than this old Penzel. It has a "wrap-around" register key, and an amazing scale. The sound is smaller than the newer horns, but it's very dark, for a C clarinet. It just has a lovely sound, so I've never switched to a new "big 4" horn. Joe Rabbai has used it at the Met Opera, and Laura Flax has borrowed it to use at the NYC Opera. Stanley Drucker thought it was a pretty neat little horn when I played it at the NY Philharmonic.
I guess I was just lucky to find it 30 years ago. Keep looking!
PS My favorite Alto Sax is the Selmer "Cigar-Cutter" that I bought from Joe Allard in the 1960s, and it was also owned by Jimmy Abato! So it has gone a bit down hill from those guys!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
Post Edited (2005-06-01 04:40)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2005-06-01 05:12
Oddly enough, my plastic but open-hole Bundy alto clarinet sounds better to my ears than the wooden closed-hole models made by Buffet and Selmer. Of course, a good-sounding alto is something of a paradox anyway.
On the sax front, I am quite happy with my WWII vintage Conn alto.
A student of mine several years ago had a Loree Bb clarinet. Wooden body, silver keys, great sound, and really small finger holes. I never knew Loree made clarinets, and I have not seen another since.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2005-06-01 06:41
You're not alone, JessKateDD, I'm really fond of my Bundy open hole alto, too. In fact, I find no reason to look for anything else. While it's definitely not in the "off the wall" category, it's a pretty good horn for the money. It's about as much fun as anything else in the pile (including the Bundy bass )
- r b -
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2005-06-01 11:44
Surprisingly or not, open hole Bundy alto's have a remarkable following so there must be something to it.
jbutler
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-01 12:17
I recently stumbled upon a vintage Couesnon Monopole Bb clarinet and I'm extremely happy with it. It's become my principal clarinet. Couesnon may be one of those "best kept secrets" in a way that's similar to vintage Buescher saxophones.
Roger
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-06-01 20:57
JJM-
When I was in college I borrowed my professor's C clarinet for the Ginastera. It was some horn that had been in the attic of a grandmother of a former student of his. That thing (sorry, can't remember the name) was a phenomenal little horn!
FWIW, it was NOT a "known" make either...
Katrina
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BassetHorn
Date: 2005-06-01 21:33
Amati C.
Linton/Malerne wood alto.
Linton/Orsi metal Eb contrabass.
Anyone played a Ripamonti or Steve Fox?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Olorin
Date: 2005-06-01 21:52
Honestly, there are people out there who OWN C clarinets?! That's totally bizarre, I have never met anyone who own one.
John. J. Moses, Katrina, Chris Hill and BassetHorn...
---and the rest of us left transposing our keisters off...
O mores, who'd have thunk it!
-Canada
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-06-01 21:53
I'm only a part-timer semi-pro (thus semi-amateur) non-real-musician hacker, but you asked, so....the current 'regular players' list:
Eb clarinet: 1930-ish hard rubber "M. Lacroix" (French-made)
Bb clarinets:
1920-ish "Carl Fischer Professional Model" (Italian-made)
1980-ish Amati ACL-311 (Czech-made)
1960-ish Kohlert (Winnenden, Germany) full-Boehm
1930-ish G.M. Bundy-Paris (French-made)
1940-ish Moennig Brothers "American Professional" metal
Alto clarinet: 1950-ish Kohlert (Winnenden, Germany)
Bass clarinet: 1950-ish Kohlert (Winnenden, Germany)
Contra-alto clarinet: 1970-ish Buescher (Bundy) plastic
Nothing mainstream there.... and don't even ASK about my saxes.....
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-06-01 21:58
Olorin wrote:
> Honestly, there are people out there who OWN C clarinets?!
> That's totally bizarre, I have never met anyone who own one.
There are many works in the standard orchestral repertoire where a C clarinet is called for, and you will find that most major symphonic clarinetists own one. For opera work it is all but required.
I have a 1986 Buffet R-13 C clarinet and wouldn't be without it in orchestra. There are numerous pieces where the C clarinet is not only a life saver (Tchaikovsky - "Mozartiana") but traditionally used (Symphonie Fantastique / The Moldau / etc...) It certainly gives you a new perspective on the particular piece when you use it.
Whether it is "proper" orchestral practice to transpose these parts to the Bb clarinet is another question in itself, and lends to its own discussion on performance practice...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-06-01 22:21
Well said, GBK, I have somewhat regretted selling my old [but good] Conn C for 3x what I paid for it, but havent needed a C since. I do have one [he has 2 !!] in town available for borrow. I "lost" my seat in our local symp for poor transposition/fingering of the "small stream" music in the early parts of Mold e Do, just try the 2nd part with a Bb. it'll make you believe !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-06-01 22:40
Olorin wrote:
> Honestly, there are people out there who OWN C clarinets?!
> That's totally bizarre, I have never met anyone who own one.
>
> John. J. Moses, Katrina, Chris Hill and BassetHorn...
My buddy Forest who plays in the Dallas Opera (bscl) has a C. Wouldn't be caught dead playing opera without having it handy ...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-06-02 12:28
C clarinets are not just about transposition. They have different tonal qualities from a Bb clarinet. To my ears, the sound of a C clarinet has a lighter weight and a "sweeter" quality than that of a Bb. Try as I might, I've never been able to get my C clarinet to exactly duplicate the sound of a Bb clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-06-02 19:28
Sorry Canada...I didn't actually write that I had a C...I noted that I borrowed my prof's in college.
Now I do own one, but it is an Albert system, and right now it is MOLDY. I am waiting for my tech to repair it...
It's a Pepper, low pitch, really neat sounding horn. I could NOT play classical on it now though...too much of my classical chops are glued to Boehm fingerings, I'm afraid. I got it for playing Greek folk music...
Katrina
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Olorin
Date: 2005-06-06 15:03
Wow... so I guess it IS common. Well, I'm a fairly advanced clarinetest, and am taking from Ted Oien (principal of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra) and I am sure that he does not own a C clarinet. I think transposition is a fantastic power, and have many friends that can transpose really hard passages in C without blinking *not that I can*.
But i guess I am a fuddy duddy and follow "traditional" orchestral practice : ).
Well, then... does anyone have a D clarinet for all those Eb transpositions?
Thanks!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda
Date: 2005-06-06 20:16
Glad to see the Couesnon name popping up - we have one of their trumpets that's unused for now but was bought when the kids were in band, but didn't recognize the name at all.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2005-06-07 04:31
Transposition ability is important. I've been handed C clarinet parts the day of a concert, and in the middle of a recording session, and was expected to play the part without difficulty. (I thought it went well each time.) I also sometimes get lazy and don't bother bringing the C to the first rehearsal of a series, figuring it's one less thing to carry. However, the sound of a C is different, so I like to use one in concerts.
I also admit to owning a D clarinet (I know: GEEK!) The price was right, and it does make the opening of the Eb part to Daphnis easier. I actually used it in a concert once: I played a Molter concerto for D clarinet with our orchestra last year.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gardini
Date: 2005-06-07 20:05
I like my old SML just fine - after John Butler re built it for me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-06-08 01:09
I have to admit I have never heard of a D clarinet. I do a lot of playing fiddle tunes with a local group, something other than Bb would certainly resolve my many-sharp problem.
Sue Tansey
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
