 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-23 01:31
okay, I am going to be playing in an orchestra and here is a list of pieces we are going to be playing (I think...) I was just wondering, which of these pieces, 1) uses A clarinet vs. Bb clarinet, 2) how many clarinet parts are there for each (2...3...4??), 3) which one's have good clarinet parts?, 4) are any of these likely to be transposed from A to Bb if needed?
Beethoven 8th Symphony
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique
Brahms 4th Symphony
Tchaikovsky Romeo and Juliette Overture
Schumann 2nd Symphony
Brahms 3rd Symphony
Schumann 3rd Symphony
Mahler 4th Symphony (Tamara Hardesty, soprano soloist)
Stravinsky Petrushka (1947 version)
Debussy La Mer
-Lindsie
Post Edited (2005-05-31 16:23)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-05-23 02:00
Why are you wanting to complicate things? Simply switch between A and Bflat ... if you're serious about orchestral playing you need an A clarinet, simple.
By the way - what at wonderful repertoire ... very exciting. The Berlioz will require C clarinets and E flat clarinets, as well as the normal A and Bflat ... so you'll need to brush up your transposing skills. Good Luck!!
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2005-05-23 02:09)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-05-23 02:03
Usually two players per. Mahlers tend to have more.
Berlioz: 1=2xBb, 2=2xA, 3=2xBb, 4=2xC(Bb), 5=C(Bb) and Eb.
The Mahler, I think, requires two Eb players in addition to two Bb's (perhaps A).
Brahms 3: 2xBb
Brahms 4: 1,2,4: 2xA, 3: 2xC(Bb)
The rest I don't have scores/parts for and haven't played.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-23 02:07
I don't have an A clarinet. I am not attempting to make things complicated. Obviously if I had an A I wouldn't even think of transposing (unless it was in C).
-Lindsie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-05-23 02:08
music_is_life wrote:
> I don't have an A clarinet.
You'll need one. Find a place or person you can rent or borrow one from.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Kevin
Date: 2005-05-23 02:09
Most of all those pieces require switching in the middle of the piece. The Berlioz has quite a prominent E-flat part as well.
Sounds like a wonderful concert season. What orchestra is this?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-05-23 03:06
You HAVE to get an A. Somehow. And an Eb because the Berlioz on Bb would be tricky, not to mention high.
Beethoven 8th Symphony: Bb only
Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique: Eb, C, A, Bb
Brahms 4th Symphony: A (I,II, & IV) & C (III)
Brahms 3rd Symphony: Bb only
Stravinsky Petrushka: A & Bb
Debussy La Mer: A & Bb
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-05-23 03:40
clarinetist04 wrote:
> Brahms 3rd Symphony: Bb only
The Brahms 3rd Symphony uses Bb and A clarinets in the 1st movement.
The 2nd, 3rd and 4th movements use Bb clarinet only ...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-05-23 04:42
Like many said before, you will probably need an A clarinet. About the C and Eb clarinets, I'd check if you are the one who plays those parts.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-05-23 05:59
"The Brahms 3rd Symphony uses Bb and A clarinets in the 1st movement."
Upon further inspection, I see that. It's probably one of those parts (this has happened to me more than once) where at the first rehearsal I think I've checked the part for surprises, I think it's all in Bb, and suddenly mid-piece I see "Muta in A," and mutter an obscenity as I frantically try to assemble my A.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-05-23 06:07
well, it seems the overwhelming response says you will need an A and Bb so don't think about going to the rehearsals without both or you will be struggling trying to transpose the parts.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-23 10:51
I am curious as to what the tempos for these pieces are like? And if you were to compare them to Shostakovich's "Festive Overture" or Sibelius' second symphony...the finale... how would these particular pieces compare? And I mean to say, I am thinking of the tempos, key signatures, finger-mechanics, etc.
I have transposed orchestral music before, one being the Shostakovich, which ended up being in the key of B, transposed by sight, but that seemed almost simple because it was mainly based off a lot of fast scales, so I could read it that way almost perfectly. I had a bit of trouble (on the little time [2 days] I had to practice this) with the finger mechanics though.
I have also sight transposed Debussy "afternoon of a faun," The beginning (in C) of Suppe's "poet an peasant," and Bizet's "L'arliessiene" (last movement..in A), and then, in band, just becase I want to practice transposition, "Carmen Suite" (I play the oboe part), and then at home, just for the fun of it, I play the Les Miz book with the CD, but the book is written for piano, so it is transposed...
anyway...I was hoping that you could tell me how....scale-based (for lack of a more creative term) these pieces are. How tricky they might be. I mean, really, in the area I live, all the A clarinets are junk (this is not the first time I have needed an A clarinet), so please, just tell me how feasible transposition would be, not how badly I need an A...or just that "it is hard". I realize this wont be simple.
-Lindsie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2005-05-23 18:11
The Berlioz and Debussy might be managable, but I would not suggest doing Petrushka on Bb only. It will get a little harry. I suppose you could rewrite the part, or possibly the parts will come with a Bb transposed part, as is often the case.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: larryb
Date: 2005-05-23 18:49
The Brahms 4th comes with an alternative all-Bb part - I think it was the Kalmus edtion. I used the Bb part for the 3rd movement only, rather than transposing from the origninal C part, although it's not too hard to tanspose, I was just lazy and preferred to focus my limited energy on the 2nd movement (which I played on my A, of course).
Get an A, for godssakes!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-23 22:31
I have been looking for an A for a year, but to no avail (aside from the one Walter Grabner was selling...but I AM a poor teen about to go to college, with car insurance, gas, etc. and a small paycheck every 2 weeks.)
I have been putting every cent into my bank, but I still need to buy gas! I will get an A when I can afford one.
anyway, thanks, you have all helped me a lot.
-Lindsie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-05-24 01:13
Lindsie ... sounds like you're on a very tight budget, you don't need to purchase a top dollar A ... maybe you might find a pre-loved one or maybe someone on this BB has a few up their sleve and might be interested in a cheap sale?
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tara
Date: 2005-05-24 01:46
I love Mahler 4... The second part has Eb in it- from what I recall the first does not. It's got a fun part where you play written high F#s in unison with the piccolo. Fun fun fun. There is a third/bass clarinet part as well.
Good luck,
Tara
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-05-31 17:31
Brahms 3rd Symphony - start out on the A and transpose the part. Don't do the switch (it lays much better on the A and the intonation for the big solo will be better if you start out on A). That's what Gigliotti taught his students to do.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-05-31 18:13
David is right on the Brahms 3rd, but I think the nasty arpeggio solos (in both the 1st and 2nd parts) are written for the A clarinet and played on the Bb. The written arpeggios are in Ab, and the transposed versions are in G.
In the 1950s, Augustin Duques (Toscanini's principal in the NBC Symphony) wrote an article about transposing for the original series of The Clarinet Magazine, in which he mentioned routinely transposing this solo. He also noted that you have to switch back very quickly. It's the one time I would switch both the mouthpiece and the barrel.
I posted the Duques article on Klarinet board (in response to a particularly opinionated posting by Dan Leeson about how one should never, ever transpose), but it has disappeared. I assume Mark or GBK removed it because of copyright concerns.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-05-31 18:46
I think for living composers you shouldn't transpose because they may come after you for doing it ............ 
![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2005-05-31 18:48
Brahms 3rd should be started on the A clarinet (not the Bb) for 3 reasons:
The first being that on the Bb clarinet the arpeggio in measure 26 has the tricky C6 and Eb6 skip. If it is played on the A clarinet, the notes become C#6 and E6, a more secure interval.
The second reason is that the exposed solo at measure 36 (written by Brahms to change to A clarinet) for intonation reasons should not be played on a cold instrument, but rather with one that has been properly warmed up.
The third reason is practicality. If started on the Bb clarinet, Brahms gives less than 3 measures to change to the A clarinet before the big solo at measure 36...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: larryb
Date: 2005-05-31 19:13
lots of good advice about how to finance an A clarinet
for the life of me, I can't understand why you would choose a car over an A clarinet - get your priorities straight - sell the car; buy an A!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-05-31 20:10
For those of us who don't live in New York City or London, just try getting to the gig (or college) in your A clarinet rather than a car..........inexpensive but suitable (for anyone not a professional full-time orchestra clarinetist) A clarinets exist -- find one, and keep your car.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2005-06-01 01:29
[ Diz... Offers of clarinets for sale for friends, should be conducted off-line. Thanks - GBK ]
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-06-01 12:09
actually I got the car for free. tires and break job cost about $400 bucks...no one ever got a DECENT pro A for $400, so unless you see anything worth buying for less than a $1000, don't give me any crap about having a car, which gets me to the rehersals, even though I don't have an A clarinet in them.
-Lindsie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-06-01 14:04
He was probably kidding. Of course a car is more important than an A Clarinet in the whole scheme of things.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: larryb
Date: 2005-06-01 15:24
surely a chicken and egg situation - need a car to get to orchestra rehearsal; can't seriously rehearse without an A clarinet
email me off-line - I have an extra A that'd I'd sell for the right price (probably within your range).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
