 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-05-17 20:43
Hi guys. Im am looking for some advice for my situation involving making recorings and music programs for my lap top.
I am being given a lap top as a graduation gift from my parents. Its a dell, 1.3 Ghz Pentium 4 Celleron processor, 512 Mb ram(i assume DDR), 30 gig hardrive(small i know but at this point i don't see how i can use it, if not i can buy more later). USB ports. cdrw/dvd drive. I don't know what else to include, so please ask if I have left anything out.
What I am wanting to do is record myself playing, mainly to be able to evaluate myself, and possibly to record progress. I will store the audio on cd. I also would like to be able to sequence and arrange music for fun.
I have asked one of my teachers, who's opinion is an excellent one.(she has dealt a lot with sweetwater and has worked an incredible amount of time with these programs) She suggests that I get Home Studio, which I already have a lot of experience with from being in her class. She thinks that for my purposes, which is primarily recording, Home Studio is a good price and serves my purpose well. I think it costs around 90 bucks. I also need to get an interface to connect everything. She told me that this comes with a sound card for the computer. Of course I am also going to need a mic. For inputing music(sequencing and arranging), I would also like to get a small keyboard. I have seen some that are just one octave. While this might take longer than a full keyboard, a full one costs a lot and I have limited space.
I don't want top of the line, but I dont want the lowest either. I basically want quality for not an extremely high price. I am getting a job over this(though I will still have plenty of hours to practice) and I am getting money for graduation.
I am going to call sweet water and other companies and talk to them about this, but my first inclination was to ask here because you guys seem to know just about everything. I basically want to know what kind of hardware and software would be good for my situation. What kind of equipment do you guys use? What else that I am not aware of would be useful to me as a college student studying music and clarinet.
I really appreciate any suggestions and advice that any of you have. Thanks.
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Author: bill28099
Date: 2005-05-18 03:20
I do a lot of recording on my Compaq Presario 2100 using a shareware version of Goldwave (v4.26) and a $4.95 Telex computer mike. The CD quality seems to be pretty good. If you want really high quality you will need a good studio mike and a mixer/amp as the mike will not have enough output to properly drive a laptop's sound card. I have a studio mike and mixer and to be frank, can't tell the difference. The price difference was over $200.
For midi you will need a midi to USB interface as most modern laptops are no longer equipped with a games port. My midi to USB interface is old and didn't work very well with the computer equipment I had at the time.
A great teacher gives you answers to questions
you don't even know you should ask.
Post Edited (2005-05-18 03:21)
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Author: poopsie
Date: 2005-05-18 03:40
I just use the sound machine that was already installed on my computer. It automatically records up to 60 seconds of material, and you can add on to that by pushing the record button again. I realise that this is a somewhat tedious way to make a recording, but playing tests generally do not take up more time than 60 seconds (in my personal tests). The sound quality is also very good with this program. (Microsoft Sound Recorder)
I do not recommend this for long compositions, only for short recordings. I am not sure about the piano, either, but I know some keyboards hook up directly to the computer and there are programs that write in a note on the screen once a note is played.
I have tried some of the recording devices that are free to download off of the internet and I have not found any of the free versions to be helpful for recordings.
The microphone I use for my computer is a Labtec verse 504. It has been a good microphone and it does not pick up any buzzing. The company probably has some other products that are a little newer, but I get quality recordings from this mic.
I found a site after a google search. It is recommended by one or two people who have used many different types of recording software. (The cubase system was most highly recomended)
http://www.steinberg.de/Steinberg/defaultb0e4.html
I hope that this helps!!
Post Edited (2005-05-18 03:54)
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-05-18 12:25
Sweetwater is a good phone call to make. Check out the hardware from M-Audio. They make some very inexpensive and fairly decent sounding USB audio/MIDI interfaces that should work nicely with your computer. There is also an inexpensive TASCAM with similar capabilities. Look for something with onboard mic preamps so you don't have to buy that box separately. There are a number of very decent inexpensive microphones too that should serve your purpose. Rode makes a good stereo mic that would serve you well for many years to come.
As for software, check out Cakewalk Home Studio v2. It is a jack of all trades, master of none, but covers pretty much what you are trying to do.
Good luck, and feel free to email me if you want more info.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-05-18 13:57
Nero Wave Editor. Only problem is, you dont see the wave until you have recorded and push the OK button...then you can edit easily.
Mackie Spike Interface....provides phantom power, earphone monitor, is powered separately from the laptop, and connects via USB port.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: Robert Moody
Date: 2005-05-19 01:32
Software aside, it is VERY important to get as good a microphone as possible! There is a bit to consider in quality microphones and how they are connected to your audio equipment, but you can have the best software available (I have Sony Sound Forge 7, btw) and a poor microphone will start you off on a lower rung of quality.
Good luck and congrats on the gift and ideas for using it.
Robert Moody
http://www.musix4me.com
Free Clarinet Lessons and Digital Library!
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Author: BlockEyeDan
Date: 2005-05-19 16:58
Hello....
Having just spent a semester involved with a music/media/technology lab class, I can heartily recommend the latest version of Cakewalk's Sonar. I forget which version it is, but it just won a gold medal at a tech convention in Germany. If you're a student you can get it at a hefty discount. Cakewalk's Home Studio 2 is also a decent program.
Robert Moody's observations about a good mic are spot on! Invest as much as you can into a quality mic. Our a cappella group is currently in the studio, and we're singing into German-made mics that run about $4000 a piece......you can hear somebody grind their teeth 20 feet away!
Dan
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-05-19 18:13
Keep in mind that when you look for a good mic, most condensor mics require phantom power which is NOT supplied by the computer.
Also note that the solid balanced connectors of most mics do not fit the computer input ports. Adaptors or an interface device are a must in this situation.
Most high end solftware is designed to feature midi inputs (elec. keyboard and the like) as well as guitar tracks, drum and loop effects. This makes things overly complex for woodwind recording IMHO (unless you want to make Brahms sound like Star Wars).
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-05-19 20:05
Thank you guys very much for all the excellent advice.
What exactly is phantom power?
I think I'm going to get Home Studio 2 for software.
I don't plan on connect the mic directly into my lap top. I Plan on getting an interface for that.
I will continue my research, but I want to know why the university I am attending has available to me already. They seem to have a pretty large budget, at least the concert hall is beautiful, so I expect good things.
I dont plan to spend more than 1000 on this btw. I do have a limited budget, but not too limited, but from what i am reading many of you agree the most emphasis should be placed on the mic? If so which brands are well known for high quality mics?
My teacher at my highschool which I am graduationg from tuesday has an M-audio interface. If I were to get an interface, do I need to worry about buying a sound card for my laptop?
Thanks
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-05-19 22:06
The interface serves the role of sound card so no, you do not. You will need headphones or some powered speakers though to listen to what you are doing.
Phantom power is a 48v charge that condenser mics use in the capsule to establish the field that gets essentially disturbed to turn sound into signal. Most of these interfaces have balanced (XLR) connectors -- the 3-pin kind used by most microphones -- and have a phantom power switch so you should be fine.
Yes, the mic is extremely important, rather like the mouthpiece on your clarinet, but you don't have to go beserk. Look at modestly priced AKG, Beyer, Audio Technica, Rode, and BLUE mics. You might be very satisfied with something like the AKG C451B (about $450). I engineered a clarinet album with a pair of classic 451s and a pair of Neumanns and got a very fine result. Just be aware that most mics are mono - so if you eventually want to record in stereo get something for which you can get another one later when $ permit.
Have fun with it.
Post Edited (2005-05-20 13:27)
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Author: 3dogmom
Date: 2005-05-20 21:16
Just a small added thought about the keyboard you mentioned acquiring. You don't need to spend a lot of money to get a decently sized keyboard that will allow you access to MIDI. Check out places like BJs and Costco, they usually have last year's model on sale for about $100. The more you spend, the better the MIDI sounds will be, in general.
Sue Tansey
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-05-21 19:28
These might be slightly above your budget and does a lot more than you need (probably severe overkill), but here's what I use:
The MBox from Digidesign ($500 or so): USB digital audio interface of excellent quality, 2 inputs, 2 outputs. Comes with ProTools recording/sequencing software, which is also quite cool and pretty widely used. The hardware interface can be used for most other programs as well.
Rode NT1A microphone ($200). Very high sound quality. Can hear neighbors down the street feeding the dog if I turn it up high enough. It comes with a shock mount (so that vibrations from people walking, etc., don't make for loud booms), and a stand will probably set you back an additional $20-40.
Behringer Eurorack mixer (I use the 1622, but have only actually needed all of the inputs once. A lower model should do you fine). Excellent value for the price they charge. Mine was $220, other models are as low as $40. A mixer is especially nice to have because I can send sound from my microphone, synthesizer, computer, DVD player, etc. selectively (on models for $140 and up, I think) back into the computer and/or to the speakers with one setup.
If you're sequencing, you might look into a decent synthesizer if you intend to record any of the sound. General midi is notoriously bad on most compuers. There are quite a few good software synthesizers (e.g. Reason) and too many hardware ones to name (make sure the software one is compatible with your sequencing program). If there is a hardware synthesizer whose sounds you like, it may have the bonus of having a keyboard attached. Some of the miniature midi keyboards are surprisingly expensive as they have significant features for recording. You might do best looking for a good-condition used keyboard and/or synthesizer. If you do get an external synthesizer, it will make the mixer all the more useful. I bought a Yamaha SY-99 (still probably one of the best synths of all time) used a few years ago.
However, no amount of great equipment will do you any good if you don't know how to use it. Familiarity with the product, like you were saying with Home Studio, might be the best way to go, unless you are content to fidget and explore quite a bit (which is fun too).
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-05-21 19:56
FWIW Cakewalk HomeStudio 2 doesnt support USB type interfaces, at least mine will not.
Now can you help me? I DO get an occassional pop from my AT1335 mic.
Suggestions?
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-05-21 20:12
Alseq: FWIW HomeStudio2 would support the MBox, as it has ASIO drivers available. Heck, I can run Winamp through it.
How is the mic hooked up to the computer? How is it physically mounted? Under what circumstances dose it pop?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-05-22 03:42
Dr. Segal -- could be static discharge if the mic or the interface isn't grounded properly. Other possibility is the pop is coming from the analog/digital converter. If it isn't clocking properly, it can get pretty ugly. As for the USB interface, you may need to download a driver (or driver update) from the manufacturer's website to address it.
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Author: steve s
Date: 2005-05-22 03:51
it is my opinion that the ProTools software, while indeed the industry standard, is too complex for home use. You're also tied to ProTools compatible hardware. it is my opinion that the Adobe product "audition" is superior for home use. this software is essentially the venerable cool edit software. I have used this software for years successfully.
In the Windows world, unless you're using ProTools (which is not really a Windows application, it is commonly used in the Macintosh platform) all you really need to do good live stereo recording is a high-quality stereo microphone, a simple mixer that delivers a stereo signal, and a good sound card, that is to say something better than any of the Sound Blaster offerings. I have found that the m- audio 2496 card and a simple Yamaha M. G. 10/2 mixer are sufficient. With respect to a microphone, audio technica has a nice small diaphragm stereo condenser microphone for about $250.
I tend to stay away from any equipment manufactured by Behringer, due to their poor quality control and poor reputation for longevity.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-05-22 03:57
Mic goes into the Mackie Spike interface via balanced cable. The unit provides the phantom power.
It then goes into the PC (Windows XP pro) via a usb.
The mic is on a boom stand with a shock mount
There might be a problem with the Spike being on the same outlet as the PC. and the speakers (which are then connected via the spike jack instead of from the PC sound card) I will rearrange some of the plugs
I will see about the update download.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: mkybrain
Date: 2005-05-22 05:04
My laptop has Microsoft xp home edition with microsoft office xp pro, would that be a problem?
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2005-05-22 05:20
For a simple, excellent, and free recording and mixing software, you should check out the open-source Audacity at http://audacity.sourceforge.net/. It's a whole lot better than the recorder that comes with Windows and does a lot more. It's free and easy to download and install, so it doesn't hurt to try it, just to see if it's sufficient for your needs. It can record mono and stereo easily from a mic or the computer, trim sections, add effects, etc.
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-05-23 22:43
Thanks for the Audacity tip....It is a nice simple program.
The pop might have been comming from an errant setting (mea culpa) on the input mixer turned too far to the USB instead of Dir detent.....Well, when all else fails, read the instructions.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-05-24 03:09
Good heavens Doctor, not the MANUAL!
See one, do one, teach one is for whimps. I presume you never cracked Grey's Anatomy. Come on, real men learn by DOING!
... or die trying...
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2005-05-24 04:05
...and never ever stop to ask directions......
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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