 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-05-14 03:27
Conn-Selmer owns everything!
I was looking on a certain on-line auction site, and found colored "Holton" clarinets. I thought only Vito made the Dazzlers. On the clarinet, is the Leblanc symbol. Oh, so Holton is owned my Conn-Selmer as well. And Holton is now gonna be the colorful instruments?
I knew of the all the mergers I thought. It's like a really messed up love triangle.. err... dodecahedron.
Then I found out that they also own the Konig and Meyer stands as well? It's almost like a monopoly. lol
--CG
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Author: Contra
Date: 2005-05-14 03:39
According to their website's links, they own a good bit of all the instruments you may buy.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-05-14 18:11
Holton has been part of the Leblanc group for a while, as has Yanagisawa. It all came over with the acquisition. The Steinway/Conn-Selmer company now owns most of the brands you might be familiar with in the band or student orchestra, including Glaesel, Ludwig, Musser, King, Artley, Emerson, and the list goes on. 'Tis the way of things. The market isn't really growing, and what there is left has not been helped by the advent of Indian and Chinese instrument-shaped-objects.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-05-14 18:37
I don't see the Steinway acquisition of Leblanc as a bad thing. It might give Leblanc the funds to improve their professional bass clarinet, for one thing (see a recent thread which criticised this instrument, of which I have no personal experience at all). Steinway do at least have a commitment to quality: they produce arguably the finest pianos in the world, after all.
I don't think there's a lack of competition either. I doubt Steinway will try to buy the Music Group brands (Buffet and others) even if they were allowed to do so. I can't imagine Yamaha buying Steinway. Then there are firms like Jupiter and Amati competing mainly in the student market, and specialist firms at the high end: Selmer Paris clarinets and saxes, Paxman and Alexander horns, the French oboe makers, the Japanese flute makers, Willson, Miraphone etc etc. That's before you get to the low-volume makers like Rossi and Eaton clarinets, Rath trombones and no doubt many more.
msloss mentions the "advent of Indian and Chinese instrument-shaped-objects". It's been a long advent. The Chinese have been making horn-shaped objects for over 30 years, to my certain knowledge. I'd be interested to know how their market share has changed over that period.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2005-05-14 19:12
It's my understanding that Leblanc was purchased by Selmer (USA). Could this be the corporate name for Steinway/Conn-Selmer...etc?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-05-14 19:31
Steinway have a piano division and a band instruments division, otherwise known as Conn-Selmer. Steinway purchased Leblanc (including Leblanc France, Yanagisawa, Holton etc) and now operate it as part of the Conn-Selmer division.
See, for example: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/07-22-2004/0002216283&EDATE=. Oddly, this link states that Selmer Paris saxophones (the clarinets are not mentioned) are a Steinway product. This is a little misleading: they have distribution rights in the USA and Central America, but they don't manufacture them.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2005-05-14 22:12
Have I missed something? I didn't think Leblanc ever OWNED Yanagisawa. I thought they just were the USA distributer for their products. Am I misinformed?
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Author: growlingbunny910
Date: 2005-05-14 22:22
We have a Conn-Selmer plant in Eastlake which bought out the old King Instruments plant. Their focus is brass instruments.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-05-14 22:27
Fred - I think you may well be right. http://www.yanagisawasax.co.jp/en/about/agents/ lists their agents, and Leblanc are indeed the agents in the US but nowhere else.
http://www.yanagisawasax.co.jp/en/about/yanagisawa/ gives summary details of the company, but doesn't mention Leblanc (nor anyone else) as being the owners. (It mentions that their main showroom is in Shinjuku in Tokyo: I stayed in Shinjuku last year but was unaware of it, how frustrating!)
It remains to be seen what Steinway do about rationalising their brands. it makes little sense to me that they have distribution rights for Selmer Paris and for Yanagisawa saxophones. It makes even less sense to retain distribution rights for Selmer Paris clarinets now they own Leblanc, nor to manufacture student clarinets under the Selmer name when they could use the Leblanc name. Now D'Addario have bought Rico they have stopped being US distributors for Vandoren; I would expect Steinway to behave similarly.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-05-15 00:43
CS has thus far committed to maintaining the integrity of the professional level instruments and focusing their consolidation efforts at the student level. There are efficiencies and savings (e.g. Asian manufacturing, for one) that will help their business model with the mass-produced horns, but the benefits aren't going to be there at the pro level. Leblanc and Selmer pro horns have distinctive attributes that draw different people, so they have more market coverage by maintaining both. We don't need 52 different flavors of student clarinet. The market ain't that discerning.
And I should have been clearer -- I meant to say the advent of mass-marketed Chinese ISO's in the US.
The decisions Conn-Selmer, and TMG for that matter, will make are going to be market-driven. If there is a broad market for distinct brands and they can reap more business that way, diversity will be maintained. If the brands are eating each other's young, consolidation is logical. Believe it or not, we all are going to drive that decision. Our purchasing behavior will determine distribution strategies and the continuing legacy of these makes.
No pressure.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-05-15 02:02
From my point of view it may be a WalMart kind of thing (lets not start a Wally World bashing thread however) which IMO is not good for the small business person. The consumer will ultimately drive the market but loose IMO the personal attention given by many small businesses. The market in the US, from my perspective at least, is primarily cost driven with secondary empasis on quality, professional level clarinets excluded. Conn-Selmer is also snapping up distribution rights for other accessory products (personal observation) where a small business cannot compete with the machinery and efficiency of scale in place at Conn-Selmer. To their credit they do offer a number of products in their accessory catalog that a small business person could not efficiently advertise and distribute but their marketing deals are very structured and hugely discount oriented. This drive toward consolidation and dwindling participants in a market segment is the wave of the decade even in the music business I guess?
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2005-05-15 02:38
The US market is having to compete with a lot of Asian rim instruments being imported. I see the merger as a "united front" for survival. I think that consumer demand will dictate which products survive and which Conn-Selmer will no longer manufacture. I believe there will be some deep discounts on some instruments that will be discontinued. I don't think Conn-Selmer will have so many clarinet lines in competition with themselves. I think they will keep the Opus and Concerto, but will probably discontinue the rest of the LeBlanc clarinet line. I'm wondering which student lines will survive. Will they keep the Selmer 300 or Leblanc student line? I guess time will tell.
jbutler
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Author: ffrr
Date: 2005-05-15 08:41
Well, here's an odd thought. I am getting a feeling of deja vue here. I remember how everyone used to avoid stuff 'Made in Japan' as it was cheap rubbish, but over the years, it is now a plus (especially in the world of electronics) to be made in Japan. Look how we respect Yamaha.
So, in the world of musical instruments, Asia is churning out cheap 'horn shaped objects'. I can't help wondering how long before they are putting out something worth buying? They might be already, as I see some music stores starting to recommend some of the best of their brands. I bought a cheap Korean made guitar (I have many guitars, I just needed a cheap one to take camping) a few years back, and it is a superb instrument - really good quality, and great to play, with an excellent sound. I predict you will see thje braver people start to say this about Asian horns in the near future.
This is real pressure that the traditional music companies must be feeling. I am not surprised to see the market sorting itself out with some consolidation like this thread is discussing.
Meanwhile, I still wonder if that beautifull looking Sax in the window of my local music store is a good buy at $800 Australian dollars. Sure, it's made in Asia, but the store says they are quite good.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-05-15 09:49
The point I was making is that China has been turning out cheap "horn-shaped objects" for many years. (When I write horn, I mean horn in the correct sense, as in "French" horn.) I know. I own one. I bought it secondhand in 1972 or 1973. There was an identical one on a certain auction site recently, amusingly labelled as an "Early French horn". No, I don't recommend you rush out and bid for it. They don't even make attractive lamps.
About the only thing that has changed is that now they put a brand name on them. Mine has no writing on it at all; in fact I only know it is Chinese because I was told as much by Paxman's, who ought to know. I suppose there is the possibility they actually meant Taiwanese, and that my horn is an ancestor of the Jupiter instruments that are, I'm told, quite acceptable.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-05-15 12:03
apparently, asian string instrument manufacturers have made great improvements in recent years - so much so, that chinese-made cellos are now considered quite respectable, from the affordable student level to the artisan, professional level. Part of this has to do, I think, with the market driving demands of orchestral string programs for children throughout asia (ie: Suzuki)
clarinets can't be too far behind...
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2005-05-16 19:22
It's just strange to see how small companies are being wiped out, or being eatten by larger ones. It takes away the personal/individualism of things. Like... technically you don't play a LeBlanc, you play a Conn-Selmer Leblanc... we can't even call it just Selmer! Like Nes-Quick. Why make things so difficult?
lol
--CG
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Author: larryb
Date: 2005-05-16 19:38
contragirl:
actually, you don't even play a Conn-Selmer Leblanc: it's a Steinway-Conn-Selmer Leblanc.
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