 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-06 23:27
Alright, I have a really picky question, but it's about Debussy's "Priemiere Rhapsodie," which is a very intricate piece by nature, so I don't think I am over-thinking things here....
okay- the second page, after number 6...at the Scherzo... There is the measure of four 8th notes, then a measure of three 8ths and two 16ths, then the next measure is a quarter note, quarter rest. It indicates in measure one of the scherzo that the dynamic level should be piano. In the second measure, at the 16th notes, there is a crescendo, then under the G there is a piano. My clarinet teacher believes that the player is meant to play piano, crescendo, then play the G piano. I know Sabine Meyer doesn't do it in the recording I have, and Gervase De Peyer sounds like he does this, but he does it both times, and the second time this part continues to crescendo, it is not indicated that the quarter note is to be played piano- there is a crescendo to the quarter note, so I'm not sure de Peyer is doing it correctly (as written) either. But that doesn't mean not do it...right? Because apparently there is only one version of the "Premiere Rhapsodie," and this figure is composed in the same way in the piano part...
thanks.
-Lindsie
Post Edited (2005-05-07 01:11)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-05-07 00:13
If you really want to research this, check out
The Music for Accompanied Clarinet Solo of Claude Debussy: An Historical Analytical Study of the "Premiere Rhapsodie" and "Petite Piece" by Dennis Quentin Nygren, 1982, Northwestern University.
$38.00
UMI ordering info http://wwwlib.umi.com/dxweb/gateway
Author: nygren, dennis
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-05-07 01:51
There is the original Debussy Rhapsodie manuscript on Carbonaire's page (linked on the other thread)
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2005-05-07 20:34
Your teacher is correct. In general, both Debussy and Ravel are very nit-picky when it comes to dynamics. Try to play exactly what is written and if a passage is repeated with different dynamics emphasize the differences. Debussy is full of subito p's and subito pp's that are not marked subito. If you see a cresc. followed immediately by a p or a pp this is supposed to be a subito p. Emphasize the cresc. so that the subito p is obvious.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2005-05-07 20:45
I just took a look at the orchestral score and the p you mentioned 15 bars after 6 is not there. There are really 3 versions of this piece-the cl. part, the piano score, and the orchestra score. There are many differences among the 3 versions. IMO the cl part and the piano part are correct in this measure.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-07 20:51
Quote:
I just took a look at the orchestral score and the p you mentioned 15 bars after 6 is not there. There are really 3 versions of this piece-the cl. part, the piano score, and the orchestra score. There are many differences among the 3 versions. IMO the cl part and the piano part are correct in this measure.
yea....2/3 being marked at p means I'll do it. I figured Debussy did it deliberately. thanks.
-Lindsie
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-05-09 18:14
Please check the Carbonare site for the Dangain version of the First Rhapsody....his comments are very wise.
David Dow
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2005-05-09 19:33
here it is
http://www.carbonare.com/debussy.zip
http://www.carbonare.com/debussyfr.zip
David Dow
Post Edited (2005-05-09 19:33)
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-09 19:40
darn. it doesnt work. i dont have zip files on the computer I am using (which is much faster than the one I have at home!) thanks anyway.
ps mark, that address you gave me is really killer! the harddrive is whirring like crazy! and this is a highspeed computer!
-Lindsie
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Author: diz
Date: 2005-05-10 06:00
Mark Charette ... what's the copyright status with this work?
PS - it took about 30 mins to download, but was worth it. Durand is a lovely edition, to be sure.
Without music, the world would be grey, very grey.
Post Edited (2005-05-10 06:29)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-05-10 10:49
diz wrote:
> Mark Charette ... what's the copyright status with this work?
Literally a scan of my 1910 (scanned before it falls apart) edition; out of copyright.
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2005-05-10 20:36
My Durand edition is copyright 1911. I bought it about 15 years ago. I think that there is also a Southern Music edition.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-05-11 16:03
Charles Neidich gave wonderful performance notes on the Debussy. See http://www.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2003/01/000364.txt. He said that the clarinet/piano version was made at the last moment and has numerous errors, but that Debussy checked the orchestral score very carefully. Therefore, you should always check the orchestra score and resolve any discrepancies in its favor.
Ken Shaw
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-11 17:00
I heard that it was originally written for clarinet and piano, then transcribed for orchestra.... (?)
-Lindsie
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-05-11 17:14
Lindsie -
See Charles Neidich's presentation. He said that Debussy conceived the piece for clarinet and orchestra, and that the arrangement and piano, although it was published first, was never indended to be the definitive version. It was published in a rush for the French Conservatory annual competition.
Ken Shaw
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-11 18:47
im not sure what mark supplied up there (orch or piano?) but my computer wont load it, so other than that option, how am I to get a clarinet w/ orch accompaniment? it seems like piano accompaniment is all that is offered. anyway, those last notes that neidich (and my clarinet teacher as well) alluded to...should I fix this, or play them as written in my part, even if they are technically wrong??
-Lindsie
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-05-11 19:05
music_is_life wrote:
> im not sure what mark supplied up there (orch or piano?) but my
> computer wont load it
Orchestra. It's a BIG file; it'll probably download if you wait long enough. On a 1 Mbit cable connection expect about an hour. On a dialup forget it.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-05-11 22:37
well my home computer is dial up and I don't know about the public library's....anyway, could you just peek at it and tell me if there are any discrepancies between the piano and orch part (besides the very end....)? pretty please? or else I'll end up doing endless research...or sitting at the library for hours on end....
-Lindsie
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