 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-02-27 11:09
In an earlier exchange about silk swabs, a correspondent mentioned using compressed air to keep holes dry. I thought this was a good idea -- it certainly works well -- but noticed that the air comes out quite cold in relation to the clarinet after it had warmed up. I wondered if this might set up strains in the wood and possibly lead to cracks.
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Author: ron d.
Date: 2000-02-27 17:16
STOP, STOP, STOP, RIGHT NOW. compressed air from cans are activated by a propellant similar to the propellant used in air conditioning systems. you have noticed that the can becomes quite cold after useing, what you dont know is that the air being propelled is quite cold, and the closer the stream of air to the instrument the colder it gets. a difference of 40 degrees is not uncommon. to spray compressed air from a can into your warm instrument is begging for disaster. using air from a mechanical compressor is better because the air is compressed manualy and released as needed ( like the kind used to inflate your cars tires ) but as the air stream passes over the moist inner wall of the clarinet it will tend to decrease the tempature slightley ( similar to the wind chill effect.)
SO IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION THE ANSWER IS STOP, STOP, STOP, RIGHT NOW.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-02-27 18:02
Amen!! Even "blowing out the water" by a player's breath may cause a slight drop in temp. due to evaporation of water, but prob. not hazardous by itself. But compressed air is prob. VERY DRY and the temp. effect would be much greater! Be careful, Don
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-02-27 18:16
Ron,
Your physics are a bit wrong here (any gas rapidly changing pressure will experience a drop in temperature - and Freon hasn't been used as a propellant in quite a while) but anyway:
I'm sure the cold air doesn't help anything - but I'd be much more worried about particles of grit and such being blown right through the pad skins. Most mechanical compressors have a rudimentary filter only.
There are cans of filtered, pressurized air that are available for cameras that would probably do fine - but manually blowing the water out of the holes after playing, along with painting an oil line around the most problematic holes (check the Study section here on Sneezy for instructions) should suffice.
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Author: RON D.
Date: 2000-02-27 19:07
MARK you are right about freon no longer being used BUT the propellants currentily being used behave in the same way. if you dont believe that compressed air propelled by a refigerant becomes much colder just use a simple photograghic thermometer and measure the temperarure yourself. i do not recommend using mechanical compressors ether. the only safe method i can think of is to use the airstream from a nasal CPAP (medical device) that has heated humidified and filtered air, the heated air is only a few degrees above the ambient room temperature. if you know anyone that suffers from sleep apnea the chances are good that they have such a machine. Mark you are way over your head on this subject. my advice stands STOP, STOP, STOP.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-02-27 20:32
I was referring to the cans of compressed air sold in photo shops. In fact B&G sells a drying agent in cans, which I figure is the same thing. Anyway, I didn't like the look of the practice, and kept right on using cigarette papers. I lke the idea of painting an oil track around keys that tend to clog, but not too sure how to do that.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-02-27 21:23
RON D. wrote:
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MARK you are right about freon no longer being used BUT the propellants currentily being used behave in the same way. if you dont believe that compressed air propelled by a refigerant becomes much colder just use a simple photograghic thermometer and measure the temperarure yourself.
...
Mark you are way over your head on this subject.
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Oh, I don't think so. You don't need a propellant to become colder - the rapid expansion of <b>any</b> gas will lower temperature significantly. It's physics, plain and simple. The propellants used in <b>some</b> "blow-off" cans will cuase a further temperature drop due to their going from a liquid to gaseous form - but they're not necessary for the temperature drop. I wouldn't used compressed CO2 to blow out my clarinet - and there's no "propellant" as such, just compressed CO2 - which will get cold enough to burn your skin.
Physics I know something about.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-02-27 21:27
beejay wrote:
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I lke the idea of painting an oil track around keys that tend to clog, but not too sure how to do that.
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Please check the "Study" section like I mentioned before and look for Water in the Holes".
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Author: beejay
Date: 2000-02-27 23:11
Thanks Mark. And apologies for touching off a contentious debate. I thought it was a bad idea all along, but since a previous correspondent mentioned it, I was somewhat curious.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-02-28 01:03
Simple experiment. Open your mouth wide and blow into the palm of your hand. It should feel warm. Then pucker up tight and blow again. It should feel cooler, even though the soarce of air is the same. Canned air is under much more pressure and is released through a tinier hole, and will be much colder.
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Author: Margaret Copeland
Date: 2000-02-28 14:09
As for STOP,STOP,STOP Right Now ! - I've actually used both compressed air for cleaning photographic equipment and the BG product. The BG product isn't as cold as the photographic compressed air. They don't say what is in it only that is environmentally OK. Now, I've never had my oboe crack from using compressed air. It does get rid of water immediately. You don't just blast away with it - a little does the trick. You don't spray it around lacquered-in pads because it can chill the lacquer and cause them to fall out. The lacquer is very temperature sensitive and this is the reason I've had all "fish skin" pads removed from my old oboe.
I'd rather spray and put my oboe away dry and remove octave vent water during a concert than use any oil. I never put oil down the bore of my oboe to make a water track. It collects dust, cat hair etc. If you are having severe, persistant water problems, get the offending tone holes cleaned out. Been there !!
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Author: Jim
Date: 2000-03-02 05:26
Interesting conversation... I extensively use an air compressor for carpentry (nailers) and mechanical work. Often when draining the condensation from the tank, the water forms ice even though the ambient temp is well above freezing. This is similar to carburator icing back when cars had carbs and is related to changes in pressure and volume. Unless an effective filter is used in the air line as well as a moisture trap, machine compressed air is NOT clean or dry, and may also contain oil. I blow out nearly EVERYTHING, but for the reasons Mark mentioned would never use it for anything as delicate as my clarinet.
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