 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-04-28 14:06
Okay, this may sound a silly question, but I'm being serious. Honest! I'm trying to get my head round how woodwinds make their distinctive noise, overtones, partials, the importance of MP, barrel, horn etc.
So how would an oboe sound if you were able to use a clarinet MP instead of the fiddly double reed, and how would the clarinet sound if...etc
Since I don't think any oboist would appreciate me arriving with a Vandoren MP, small saw and glue, I thought I'd better ask here first. ;-)
Steve
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-04-28 14:15
A friend of mine once put a sax mouthpiece on a flute. The sound was a little like a bass clarinet playing very high.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2005-04-28 14:32
HMM,
Lessee, a conical bore with a single reed --sort of saxophonish.
Bob Phillips
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-04-28 14:55
Single-reed mouthpieces have been made for the oboe, bassoon and even the sarrusophone.
I have never heard one used; my understanding is that the instrument still retains its essential character. So an oboe with a single-reed mouthpiece sounds like an oboe, just not quite as nice. It shouldn't sound a whole lot like a saxophone; the bore is much narrower than any sax.
Putting a double reed on a clarinet might be more problematic. The barrel of a clarinet has quite a big bore compared to any double-reed instrument (is it bigger than the bocal of a contra? - not sure). You'd need a very big double reed, I think.
So far as I know, the only cylindrical double-reed instruments are windcap instruments like the crumhorn, where the reed vibrates freely rather than under lip control.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-04-28 16:13
A friend had a single-reed oboe mp which I tried briefly, modifying a clar.{Eb?} reed to fit and played on it a bit. I really didnt like it's soumd, somewhat like a sop. sax, and its having too much "latitude in pitch" compared with the [truly] %$#@#! double reed, so I tried to learn reed making, only slightly successful !, and after some 10 years of "fighting it" acknowledged defeat, and have only briefly tried playing the ill wind since. I sorta wish to find an affordable Eng Horn, as it was more fun, but with only the simple transposition of it's F parts to my fine Eb alto cl, doubt that I will. I do have a German-made antique 1820-50 E H, difficultly-playable, to cure any longings. Advice, play cls and leave well-enough alone !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-04-28 17:43
Interesting. I think it would be a good idea to have an oboist listen to oboes played with double and single reeds, then see if they can tell which is which.
If anyone makes a complete instrument, what would it be? An obonet or a clarinoe?
Steve
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-04-28 20:32
I have heard a very fine oboist play a single reed mouthpiece on his oboe. It had a sound definitely inferior to a double reed, and he told me didn't care for the sound, either.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Fred
Date: 2005-04-29 01:39
I don't believe there are any oboe "mouthpieces" currently being commercially produced. All the ones I've seen have been old Chedeville's. However, the bassoon "Mouthpiece" was still being produced by Runyon last time I checked.
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Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2005-04-29 23:22
How about a cylindrical double-reed instrument? I have never heard of such an instrument. What would that sound like? Would it overblow at the 12th?
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"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-04-30 14:26
Joel, as I said above:
"So far as I know, the only cylindrical double-reed instruments are windcap instruments like the crumhorn, where the reed vibrates freely rather than under lip control."
The crumhorn doesn't overblow at all, which is one reason it fell out of use. I suspect, if you persuaded it to overblow, you would get the twelfth.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Nathan
Date: 2005-04-30 16:45
Joel,
The Armenian duduk is a double reed cylindrical instrument. These sound very interesting, with Djivan Gasparyan probably being the most famous duduk performer out there (I have one of his CD's and it's fantastic). Here are a few websites with more info. You can also go to a website like amazon.com (that has audio sample clips) and look up Djivan Gasparyan in order to get an idea of what they sound like.
www.garni.com/articals/duduk.html
www.heritageethnicmusic.com/site/607029/page/272346
www.duduk.com
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-04-30 16:54
Over the years there have been many "trials" and combinations of the two musical bores [cyl and conical, per Benade's studies] with single/double reed or cone-shaped [brass type] lip-vibratory mps. Sach's book "The History of Musical Insts" will show you the great innovative variety of insts, our discussions of the Octavin being our most recent thread. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Wes
Date: 2005-05-03 06:32
Having played the oboe for many years in a lot of venues, I've never heard anyone use a single reed mouthpiece on it. In the existing mouthpieces I've seen, the chamber is larger than an oboe staple. I simply cannot believe that it would make any sense for musical playing of the oboe. While there are several obstacles to playing the oboe well, the reed remains the major difficulty and I have never found a commercial reed that was satisfactory compared to hand made, home made reeds. Nevertheless there are a few fine oboists who make and sell their reeds which appear to be ok. By the way, there has been a lot written about sarrusophones, but I believe that a reason for their demise was probably the difficulty in getting a decent reed and the unmusical sounds that were produced by these instruments.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-05-03 10:47
Wes - Baines claims that the major problem with the sarrusophone was its limited range: the upper octave rapidly ran out of steam. Hence you could not simply assign oboe and bassoon parts to the corresponding sarrusophones. Presumably all sorts of reed designs were tried before they gave up.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-05-03 11:36
David, what exactly is a crumhorn? Is it a specific instrument or generic term?
Steve
Oh and why 'crum'?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-05-03 13:03
The crumhorn is a renaissance wind instrument, fingered much like a recorder but non-overblowing. It has a cylindrical bore, driven by a double-reed that is covered by a cap. The player therefore blows it like a recorder, but MUCH harder. There is no embouchure to learn, but blow it as though it were a recorder and nothing will happen. Modern replicas often have plastic reeds, which require even more pressure than cane ones.
Crum (or krumm) comes from the German for bent, because the instrument is generally curved at the lower end, a bit like a stone-age alto sax. (But it isn't curved at the top.) Crum/krumm is pronounced as in German, to rhyme with room, not with thumb.
It makes a buzzing sound, amusing at first but soon becoming irritating. Crumhorns were typically played in consorts, like recorder consorts.
A Google search will reveal more, much more.... See also cornamuse and kortholt for closely related instruments of torture.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Reply To Message
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-05-03 22:15
>>A Google search will reveal more, much more.... See also cornamuse and kortholt for closely related instruments of torture.
Well you weren't kidding were you!
I especially like the Renaissance workshop that sells kits to make all of these instruments.
Absolutely fascinating!!
Steve
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