 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Alphie
Date: 2000-02-25 16:22
Mark! To continue the discussion from the previous topic.
Brymer is most likely referring to the violaplayer Straus, who, together with Joachim, Ries and cellist Piatti, performed the trio and quintet in England between March and May 1892.
We have to keep in mind that this was before the big battle about vibrato on wind-instruments that broke out in the beginning of the last century. As I wrote before, the use of vibrato should not be confused with playing with a constant vibrato. Before the "battle", vibrato was used on most instruments as an expression. Probably less on the clarinet though since v. doesn't lie very natural for the instrument. One might assume that Mühlfeld, who is described as being a very expressive player with a great sense for style, used vibrato in the gypsy-section of the second movement of the quintet. But from there on to draw the conclusion, like I think Brymer does, that he usually played with vibrato is like going a bit too far. I have lost my Brymer book so I can't reed this section in it's context, but I remember from reading it that he is not very careful with facts when he makes his conclusions. I remember him writing about the Mozart-concerto, that it couldn't possibly have been played right with the instruments they were using in those days because it was too difficult. I have played it myself on my 5-key (+ 4 basset-keys) basset-clarinet in a few concerts and it isn't that difficult if you are willing to practice and is seriously dedicated to the mission. In another section he finds the Francaix-concerto unplayable until they develop the clarinet more or come out with a version for A-clarinet. As we all know, this is not true. There were also other things that I can't remember but these things put together makes him in my opinion unreliable in the way he makes his conclusions. That's all for Brymer. Vibrato as we know it today was a disgrace and considered very ugly. When the "battle" started in the beginning of the last century the musicians were divided into two different parties. For and against. To make a long story short I think what came out of this was a polarization. Instruments that could use constant vibrato (flute, oboe, bassoon) and instruments that should not use constant vibrato (clarinet, French horn). Of course this tradition didn't last very long and was soon broken by people like R. Kell, J .Lancelot a/o.
"For an artist the most precious of gifts certainly is the gift of observation". Moyse.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-02-25 18:09
I don't wish to enter the discussion of vibrato's pros and cons other than to say I seldom use any, even in the most sentimental music. Brymer's discussion is lengthy, pgs 204-8 but well worth reading. Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-02-25 20:22
Alphie wrote:
-------------------------------
As I wrote before, the use of vibrato should not be confused with playing with a constant vibrato. Before the "battle", vibrato was used on most instruments as an expression. Probably less on the clarinet though since v. doesn't lie very natural for the instrument. One might assume that Mühlfeld, who is described as being a very expressive player with a great sense for style, used vibrato in the gypsy-section of the second movement of the quintet. But from there on to draw the conclusion, like I think Brymer does, that he usually played with vibrato is like going a bit too far.
---
Now, I'm not confused at all since I never mentioned either constant or not constant vibrato, nor will I draw any conclusions about whether or not Muhlfield used vibrato often (as Brymer does not do, either - read the entire section written by Jonathan Cohler & others about vibrato right here in the Study section.)
However, that being said, in conversations with Tony Pay, Dan Leeson, Jonathan Cohler and others we've discussed this (see the Klarinet archives). Vibrato was most definately used, and clarinet vibrato comes as easily as vibrato on other single reed instruments (though not as deep). We're not <i>trained</i> in the use of vibrato currently, therefore it feels unnatural to us - and that may contribute to our feeling that vibrato is somehow "contrived" when it comes to the clarinet.
As to some "constant vibrato" instruments - a popular jazz/classical flute player lives a couple of doors down from me - Alexander Zonjic. Constant vibrato - not.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2000-02-25 21:50
Excuse a dumb question, but how do you do vibrato on a clarinet? My teacher won't tell me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2000-02-25 21:55
Sorry, wrote above before seeing the discussion further down. But I simply can't figure out how to fibrate.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-02-25 23:05
beejay wrote:
-------------------------------
Sorry, wrote above before seeing the discussion further down. But I simply can't figure out how to fibrate.
------
Check the article by Jonathan Cohler in the Study section here on Sneezy. He gives some pointers there.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2000-02-27 11:14
Mark,
I did read that article, and found it very enlightening. But I still cannot figure out the mechanics of using either the diagphram or throat. I discussed this at length with my teacher yesterday, and his opinion is that anything that interrupts a free column of air, like movement of the throat, is to be avoided. The only way I can get a vibrato is to physically move the clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: earl thomas
Date: 2000-02-27 15:44
A very interesting discussion. Clarinet vibrato, in my opinion, should be produced in the same manner as flute vibrato, ie. from the diaphragm. I recall the late and very great teacher/performer Joe Allard describing vibrato production as a gradual accellerando of small (barely noticeable) crescendi/dimenduendi practiced until such time as your own natural vibrato became anatomically sub-concious. And, I recall him also advising not to use vibrato on every note in a phrase, but to think the phrase through and find notes which would benefit the entire passage and use them with subtle vibrato treatment. I think that one should avoid lip vibrato completly, and remain carefull not to let "diaphragm" vibrato become too wide and too slow. Hope this is of some interest to this discussion.
A bien tot, Earl Thomas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
