 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-19 21:15
What pitch do you get when you are sounding only on your clarinet mouthpiece (mp without the barrel - what concert pitch or clarinet pitch ((specify which you are talking about)) do you strive for?
I'm wondering if there are variations of pitch depending on the style of player, teacher, etc -
So what do you get?
Post Edited (2005-04-22 17:31)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-04-19 21:24
Gentlemen (and ladies) don't crow on their mouthpieces. It's considered to be bad manners.
Jeez, whaddya think, Synonymous Botch, are we reaching the bottom of the clarinet research barrel here, or what?
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2005-04-19 21:27
concert B flat, thats what I get and try to get my students doing as well.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-04-19 21:37
Isn't it "standard" beginner embochure-development practice, taught by school teachers, to make sounds [honk?] on mp + barrel ?? I have always thot that only oboe [other dbl reeds?] players "crowed" to test their reeds before horn playing. At least I did. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-04-19 21:40
I don't recall ever being taught to crow on a clarinet mouthpiece, but then again I'm probably poorly-trained.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-04-19 21:56
So...Dave...you probably have problems with Respighi...
Bob Draznik
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2005-04-19 23:38
David S -- I would add the barrel to crow, given that roosters and rooks have lower pitched voices than you get with just the mouthpiece. Hand technique is also crucial to getting just the right call.
David B -- I've never thought about going for a particular pitch in the way oboe players do when they are making reeds. I would think embouchure does affect the pitch, but it would be hard to regularize air speed, mouthpiece angle, etc.
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2005-04-20 00:20
I believe that Santy Runyon was the first to promote this simplest of mouthpiece exercises. He recommended aiming for a G concert on a tenor sax, A concert on an alto sax and B concert on a clarinet.
While these pitches are not graven in stone, they are an excellent starting point for establishing proper air stream and embouchure pressure.
At a more advanced level, Joe Allard (and others) recommended practicing intervals on the mouthpiece alone. Many of us who do these exercises can play a full octave on a clarinet or sax mouthpiece.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-04-20 02:00
I was actually in a practice room at my school and I was fiddling around with my mouthpiece and pitches today. How ironic.
When I play with the mouthpiece alone and just blow like I normally would, I played a Concert C and sometimes a Concert C# at A=440.
I have been experimenting with bending pitch lately and I can now play a full octave range on my mouthpiece (the concert C# scale). I then experimented with bugle calls and play simple songs on the mouthpiece. It was fun!
What pitch are we SUPPOSED to play when we blow with just a mouthpiece only?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-04-20 02:14
Hi,
But then there is the solo clarinet piece that begins with the performer using a complete clarinet and first the bell and then each section is taken part until the soloist is left with just the mouthpiece. I have not played this peice but I know there are many on this BB that have done so. Something about Smaller and Smaller.
So, if there is actually a composition with written notation for specific pitches, perhaps that might be a litmus test for achieving the correct pitch on the barrel and mouthpiece. then finally the MP.
HRL
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2005-04-20 02:25
Concert C and C# sounds very bad, you would have a hard time playing in tune and with a round sound. In my experience with my students the ones who sound the best are the ones who are more relaxed and play a lower note on the mouthpiece alone. And they also don't have to pull out the barrel a mile to play at 440.
For me it is Bflat (concert) on the mouthpiece and it can also be good articulation training. Trying to tounge quavers while keeping that Bflat will help you relax!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-04-20 02:35
"...Where can I find that piece of music? I would love to play it!..."
"Immer Kleiner" (German for "Always Smaller") is printed both for clarinet and band, and a piano reduction version. It is available through Ludwig Music, 557 E. 140th St., Cleveland, OH 44110-1999. Ph. # 1-800 851-1150. Composer is Adolf Schreiner, and transcribed by George S. Howard."
...GBK
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-20 03:04
I go for a B myself (B Concert) on the Mouthpiece for myself and my students. I think that Bb is too low and any higher is pinching.
That's for the way that I play and the way that I teach my students to play.
That pitch is set "in stone".
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2005-04-20 03:14
Why would bflat be too low? Gets an R13 playing exactly at pitch without having to pull out, and less white noise too.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-20 03:22
For me on my mouthpiece yes - too low, but for you and your own setup it could be perfect.
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Author: Merlin
Date: 2005-04-20 04:48
Immer Kleiner!
That brings back memories...
We used to do a novelty number at the end of the first half in our high school concerts. My band teacher "guested" as the clarinet soloist, dressed in a housecoat and curlers. I played the bratty kid he had in tow. I would sneak out at the appropriate juncture in the music and remove the bell, then lower joint, then upper joint and finally the barrel of the clarinet.
The bizarre thing is - I know there's a reel to reel tape of this floating around somewhere. I just hope there are no photos of me in my costume.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-04-20 14:17
At the Clarinet Symposium, Guy Chadash said with the proper embouchure (very firm) and breath pressure (high), the mouthpiece should crow a C.
Ken Shaw
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-20 14:37
Yup, that would be a difference in style.
Gigliotti would shake the mouthpiece in his students mouth to make sure that the corners were not too tight.
Too tight is quite subjective
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-04-20 18:57
So is it bad that I play a concert C when I blow through the mouthpiece? I see conflicting views. I am close to in tune on my clarinet. If anything, I'll be about 3-5 cents sharp when all the way pushed in, which I can easily fix by pulling out the bell barely and the barrel just a slight hair. I have just changed my embouchure recently. It used to be loose and I would play off to the right a little. Now the chin is firm and pointed and it's mainly centered. I also take more mouthpiece in now. Is what I'm now doing correct?
Oops! Forgot to say thanks to GBK! I would love to play that piece with my band next year!
Post Edited (2005-04-20 18:58)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-04-21 21:28
I just checked with my piano (don't feel like hauling a tuner out right now) and I get a concert C too...
Can't get any higher though....of course I can do lower (all that smearing in the Balkan stuff I play) and I can make tunes, etc...
But can't go higher...
Katrina
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-04-21 22:01
Let's get rid of the word "crow" in this discussion....Oboist use the term crow because there is a multiphonic occuring. A single pitch is not a crow. If an oboe reed crows at a C pitch....there are two notes...both C.. Sometimes people also use the term double crow.....this is overkill ....crow is sufficient. John
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-21 22:34
John, I had written CROW as I couldn't come up with anything else to call it that would work in a title.
As well, others do refer to it as "crowing" - Carmine Campione for one.
So what would others like to call it?
![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif)
Post Edited (2005-04-22 17:32)
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-04-22 02:07
I emailed Guy Chadash because I was extremely curious about the whole mouthpiece and pitch thing and here's what he emailed me back about that aspect:
"In the master class I asked the student to play High C (in Bb ) on the Mp only and then compare to the intonation and sound by playing high C for real on the Clarinet and getting the quality to match as much as possible That trains both ones hearing and voicing of the note.
You May choose any note you are comfortable [with] to execute the above idea just compare and match them as much as you can"
So that is probably what he meant. I think I will try that and try to get them to match! By the way, Mr. Chadash was really friendly in his email. It's good to know that there are plenty of kind people in this world!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-22 03:16
So that's Bb Concert. I use a B, some use a C concert.
Anybody use a C# concert? (I sure hope not)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2005-04-22 17:25
David,,, I would use the term....pitch....mouthpiece pitch. John
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-22 17:32
ok, I changed it. Left the word crowing in a posting so that anyone searching for something on that topic will find it too.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-04-22 21:29
Concert C, about 20 cents flat using normal embouchure, but I can lip it up and down to a B and C#.
Now my dog would like a word with you, David...
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2005-04-22 22:16
Concert C-ish.
I was playing Immer Kliener, though and needed to play on just the mouthpiece- the last note is (If I remember correctly) a written Db- my mouthpiece was just too sharp to play it. My clarinet teacher gave me an old mouthpiece to play just that note on because he said old mouthpieces were made flatter. Don't know if that's necessarily true, but it worked!
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