 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2005-04-16 21:51
I have recently decided to upgrade from my E11 to an R13. I am currently test-driving a new R13 and have some questions about the intonation of the horn. My E11 is very sharp with the exception of being very flat from E through G in the throat tone range. I play on a Vandoren B45 mouthpiece with a #3 V12 reed. The R13 I am trying out is basically in tune overall with the exception of being somewhat flat on the same notes which drive me crazy on the E11. I am planning on trying it out with other players to see if the notes can be lipped up enough.
Because the R13 has the same basic intonation issue as the E11, I'm begining to wonder if it is me or the horn.
Is this a common intonation problem for a Buffet? If so, can it be improved by tweaking or by a change in my mouthpiece or barrel? If I am otherwise pleased with a horn, what level of intonation problems should require that I send it back?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-04-16 22:19
You might find, if you measure both barrels, that the Ell bbl is a bit shorter than the R13. The point being that they are "different" horns. ....even tho both are Buffets.
Bob Draznik
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-04-16 22:43
The standard issue barrel with the E-11 is 64.5mm. The E-11 is built to play at A=442.
The R13 Bb clarinet comes with a barrel that is 66mm and is built to play at A=440...GBK
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-04-16 23:29
FYI,
I suggest taking as long as necessary to find an AWESOME R13. I know (very well actually) how it can be frustrating to wait and how you might want to get one ASAP cause you can afford it, but if you spend the extra time trying out and being VERY picky about which one you get, you'll be much happier in the long run.
So if these notes are flat and they drive you nuts, instead of buying it and attempting to correct THOSE notes, keep trying out horns until you find one that DOESN'T have a problem like this in the first place.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-04-17 00:53
Eileen, without listening to you play and testing the horns, this is an opinion only -- it is probably your playing and not the instrument. The fact that you have the same issues across two completely different instruments suggests some fundamental technique issues, probably in the areas of air support, embouchure formation, and the shape of the oral cavity (tongue/throat) as you play. Biting up the "low" notes is not the solution. Consider looking into the LeBlanc-published Bonade compendium and Larry Guy's excellent workbooks for some guidance. It also wouldn't hurt if you don't have a private teacher to at least go have a diagnostic lesson with a pro to evaluate what you are doing.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-04-17 01:22
The music shop I frequent sells E11's to beginner clarinet students. Would'nt it be a disadvantage for a beginning clarinet student starting out on an instrument pitched at A442 when most music is played at A440? Perhaps this may have something to do with Eileens intonation problem after switching from an E11 to an R13?!
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Author: msloss
Date: 2005-04-17 03:16
Unlikely. If she has been adjusting by having to play the E11 low, then the R13 would be profoundly low. She seems to be describing playing sharp.
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Author: Steve B.
Date: 2005-04-17 14:26
I would also suggest trying the R-13's with a Chadash or Moenig barrel.
In my experience this will really help to even out the scale, although their reverse taper design may increase the resistance of the horn.
Good luck,
Steve
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-17 15:05
The E-11 is "barely" a Buffet. It is a Buffet West Germany and is very different than a "buffet".
Buffet being defined as an R-13. The "buffet" sound has little to do with the E-11 model.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-04-17 15:50
Avie,
Buffet considers the E11 a student model. They pitch it (at least the Bb model, I'm not so sure about the others) at A442 so that beginners (who have a tendency to play flat because of an undeveloped embouchure) can be relatively in tune with other instruments in a first-year ensemble. Thorstein Veblen strikes again! As I understand it, (fortunately), they do not *build* it to A442, they simply include a shorter barrel. When a student's embouchure has developed to the point that playing sharp is a problem, one can largely solve the problem by purchasing a longer barrel. That may also improve intonation problems created by making the adjustment to A442 all at the top of the instrument. Though, I think one would expect the "short" notes to be sharp rather than flat if the barrel were the only issue.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2005-04-17 15:54)
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Author: claril
Date: 2005-04-17 15:58
Hi not meaning to be rude or anything but just want to say I consider an E11 a good instrument, and a good amataur (or however spelt) model. Guess depends on how you progress..
The B12 is good student model apparently.
Anyone have comments on the E13?
Thanks
Post Edited (2005-04-17 16:00)
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-04-17 16:09
I tried out 2 R13's and a Festival yesterday, and I was wondering if it was normal for the open G to be about 3 cents sharp and the tuning C to be about 20 cents sharp? All 3 of the horns did that to me and my friend who was testing them out as well. I love the sound of the Festival and I liked the sound and feel of one of the R13's a lot, but the intonation was crazy, so I didn't even consider purchasing them. Is this just Buffet or is it me?
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-04-17 16:37
--------------------------
Hi not meaning to be rude or anything but just want to say I consider an E11 a good instrument, and a good amataur (or however spelt) model. Guess depends on how you progress..
---------------------------
Absolutely! I think they are great for what they are and for young students I use them almost exclusively.
But they aren't R-13's much at all.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-04-17 18:09
me too - e11's are great for first and 2nd year students. inexpensive, easy to play, good choice for beginners. i recommend them exclusively for my beginning students. but once they hit high school they need to move up to a better horn. E11's are student horns, good for middle school, but the tone and key action is insufficient for advancing students. test play some r13's, or a pro level yamaha, selmer or leblanc, and you'll realize how significant the difference is. advancing students who stick with student model horns don't realize how much they're being held back by their equipment.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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