 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Brk3b2
Date: 2005-04-15 21:51
i recently discovered that i bite on my clarinet mouthpiece and trhere are marks on it, after trying not to bite down i cant play high notes anymore, and if i double lip the notes are way out of tune, help!
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2005-04-15 22:08
Buy a mouthpiece patch...problem solved.
Having marks in the top of your mouthpiece does not mean you are biting too hard (sorry...it could mean you are, but does not mean so automtically)
I usually go straight through a mouthpiece patch in 6-8 weeks.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-04-16 03:18
While I agree with RAMman about the mouthpiece patch, it's still likely that you are, in fact, biting too hard. The remedy, however, isn't cold-turkey non-biting.
Rather, you should "become one with the clarinet." Realize what it is that makes each note play. Discover how much of the instrument is closed for each note. Play each note to the last closed finger. You are likely playing "to" the register key, pushing it very hard and transferring said pressure to your mouth.
Don't think of high notes as "high" notes, rather think of them as notes of high pitch that use different fingerings, and play your high D just as you would a top-line F. Realize that the long mid-staff B is a full-tube note like E, not something "one higher than A#."
When you come to peace with the idea that air and fingers create the notes, your mouth becomes less of the equation and ceases trying to "push" the notes out.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2005-04-16 14:39
RAMman, are you sure you don't bite? I can go several months before changing a mouthpiece patch (and I usually just change it because it's getting gross, not because I've bitten through it...). Just curious...
When you are "trying not to bite" what do the rest of the notes sound like? It's possible that you are over-compensating and your embouchure is too loose which could cause the high notes not to come out. I know many people who's mouthpieces have teethmarks on them who are good players (who I'm assuming don't bite too hard). There has to be an adequate amount of pressure on the mouthpiece in order to make a sound, so just make sure you haven't gone too far in the other direction as far as not biting enough (I wouldn't call the proper method "biting", but you get the idea).
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-04-16 14:48
"embouchure is too loose "
The term "biting" always intrigues me. If you put a Twinkie in your mouth don't you have to bite it to get some? And when you put your mp in your mouth to play you really do bite it. What I think we mean is to tighten your embouchure muscles rather than your jaw muscles.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Brk3b2
Date: 2005-04-16 18:57
I remember my teacher saying let your teeth est on the mouthpiece, it seems to me that it is only the high c that is really hard to play because only my thumb ius supporting the clarinet, secondly maybe i am playing wrong all this time, how are you supposed to use the mouthpiece, where to put it, lip, etc.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-04-16 21:51
RAMman- i play for hours a day and can go more than a year with the same mouthpatch. My current one dates to April 2003- do you use those clear plastic ones? try the Bay "black" patches as they are very durable
donald
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2005-04-16 22:19
Donald, the clear plastic ones I find last much longer...in fact I don't think I have gone through one. I do however mind the BG black plastic ones more useful, and as a result use those.
The Clarinetist...I'm pretty sure I don't bite. I have been happy with my embouchure for years and nobody has ever mentioned it to me.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-04-16 22:42
A patch wearing out could also be due to chemical buildup (saliva, etc.). I notice that if I neglect to rinse my mouthpiece regularly the patch deteriorates very rapidly (two months vs. over a year).
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Brk3b2
Date: 2005-04-16 23:32
I dont care about my mouthpiece i want to make sure im playing the clarinet right, also a different question, do cheap high school clarients make a good player sound worse?
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Author: elmo lewis
Date: 2005-04-17 16:55
You are probably holding the mp with your upper teeth when you should be using the upper lip. Try to make it feel like you are pressing down on the mp with the upper lip to take some of the pressure of the teeth. You can also try playing with a double-lip embouchure for a few minutes each day and then try to imitate the feeling of the double lip when you play normally.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2005-04-17 23:54
First, you should care about your mouthpiece (particularly if it is an expensive one)
Second, I think that the individual instrument is more important than being a "cheap" vs "pricy" instrument. I've played on some E-11s or plastic models that had horrible sounds, and I've played on some that sounded quite good. My R-13 has a great sound (well, technically it's my sound....), but i've played on some that are stuffy and have no ring and just generally aren't good. Generally speaking, I would think that a lesser quality instrument (lesser quality shouldn't always be equated with cheaper) would hold you back once you reach a certain level, but it all depends on what you want to play and the characteristics on the individual instrument...
DH
theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: Brk3b2
Date: 2005-04-18 03:13
My mouth piece is only $10 from my school, its not that i dont care its that i dont care about teeth marks, i wish the school cared more and when i go to a music store they try to sell me the most expensive one there, i have been playing clariner for 4 years in my schools concert band level 4, i plan on majoring in music next year in college what mouthpiece should i buy, and will the school provide a clarinet better than a selmer CL300, i hope?
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2005-04-18 03:43
I've never heard of a college that provided clarinets to music majors (many colleges have Eb clarinets, altos, contras, etc - but I think it's understood that a clarinet major with own a Bb clarinet... if you plan on majoring in performance, I'd imagine you'll be required to own an A clarinet as well).
Everyone has mouthpiece preferences... I personally don't know much about mouthpieces. I have a Chedville that i bought from my teacher. It plays very well, though I don't know anything about Chedville's in general... just mine. I think the best thing to do is find a place that will let you try them and play on several to see which one you like the best.
DH
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-04-18 04:30
many high schools do not even provide instruments or mouthpieces. i know mine provides nothing but the larger or more rare instruments (bari saxes, tubas, etc...)
um, i dont mean to be rude, but if you are planning on majoring in music next year you should have already been playing on decent equipment. do you have a private teacher or is persuing music an endeavor that you have chosen to do on your own? have you been accepted to college yet? i am a senior this year and i will be attending a university to major in clarinet performance next year. the level of musicianship at a good university or conservatory is very high so the odds of you even getting accepted with less than professional equipment and no formal training is very slim. again, im sorry if im being rude but honestly, if you dont have quality instruments and quality training you may not be considering the right major. i dont mean to be discouraging, its just my thoughts about the whole college thing since ive gone through all the auditions and stuff this year.
for mouthpieces i would suggest a vandoren m13 or a vandoren 5rv lyre if your on a budget. they are only about $50 i think. if not i would suggest anything by lee livengood, brad behn, greg smith, richard hawkins, or pretty much any one of the top hand crafted mouthpiece makers in the U.S.
the school will not buy you an instrument. i dont think that its their job to make sure your prepared. for a clarinet i would suggest a buffet r13 or "better", a selmer recital or signature, a leblanc concerto or opus, or a yamaha (never played one so i dont know the specific models i prefer.)
those are just the ones i know of that are generally accepted as professional grade.
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Author: Brk3b2
Date: 2005-04-18 08:44
Im not pursuing musical performance but music education, im not planning on becoming a professional clarinet player, but clarinet is my main instrunment, my high school band level is limiting but my teacher thinks i am able to do it, as i went from beginning band to concert band in one year, i was going to buy a $65 vandoren mouthpiece for next year, I appreciate you bringing up that i have to supply my own clarinet, I suppose ill have to cash in some bonds to pay $2200 for an R-13, is thre anything cheaper that is almost the same performace wise, im not going to walk into concert band in college with a selmer CL-300 that my parents bought me 3 years ago.
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Author: clarisax
Date: 2005-04-18 14:28
a vandoren mouthpiece would be an excellent purchase to get you headed in the right direction. if this will be your first quality mouthpiece i would suggest something not too severe (B45 or anything comparable in tip openings.) id stick with a closed or medium closed facing and also one in the 13 series to keep the pitch from being overly sharp. i use a morgan rm06 with vandoren v12 4.5 reeds. i would also suggest you use vandoren, gonzalez, or zonda reeds...pretty much anything but rico reeds.
sorry, but ever since i forgot my reed case one day and my band director handed me a rico 3, ive lost all respect for that company. ive never played on a worse reed in my life.
you had asked before about how you hold a clarinet and such. i have nothing to do right now so ill explain my thoughts on this..
i was taught to hold the clarinet almost vertically. this means making the clarinet pretty much perpendicular with the floor. you should have the feeling like the clarinet mouthpiece is being pushed away from your head instead of directly into your mouth like a sax mouthpiece. you should be able to play open g without ANY support from your left hand. the mouthpiece should go into your mouth at a more severe angle then you are probably used to. as i said, i like my clarinet to be almost vertical...not quite, but almost. why? well, theres a spot on your mouthpiece where the curve, a.k.a. the facing, begins and also where the reed touches for the first time. this section is approximately where your bottom lip has to be. if you hold the mouthpiece this way you take in the correct amount of reed. my teacher has told me that some people make the mistake of thinking more mouthpiece is good, but in actuality more reed in your mouth is usually good. your teeth should be near the tip, not too far into the mouthpiece. because of the angle you may be holding your clarinet right now the amount of mouthpiece and reed that is going into your mouth may be the same. it should not be. there should be about twice as much reed in your mouth as mouhtpiece tip.
majoring in music education still requires you to have a professional instrument. i personally use a buffet festival clarinet with a moennig barrel. i hate to push a specific clarinet since everyone has their own thoughts, but an r13 really would be your best bet. when i auditioned for colleges this year every single clarinet player i saw was using buffet Bb clarinets. i think i saw one, maybe two yamaha A clarinets. an r13 really isnt that expensive, considering it should last you a lifetime if you take care of it properly. there are several used r13s on ebay for around $900 or so. i think you would be better off getting a used pro instrument then a brand new student or intermediate model. also note that majoring in music education means that you will have an applied instrument, in your case clarinet. you will still have to perform recitals and do pretty much everything that a performance major would do, just with more of an emphasis on being well rounded so you can teach band, orchestra, or chorus properly.
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Author: Lady Dream
Date: 2005-04-19 03:00
For one thing, some student or advanced student model clarinets used by highschoolers are not "cheap" or poor quality, even if they may not be pro models. A good "highschool" instuement can be played by a pro and sound fine. You'd choose an R-13 over a B-12 or an E-11, but a good player can usually still play the lower level instruments without feeling terribly cramped.
On the other hand, a poorly made, low quality instrument can certainly be a hindrance. Some clarinets just aren't fun to play on; they have poor tone, keys that don't work smoothly, etc. These can be very frusterating, not to mention a major reason school bands lose so many members. They very likely will "make a good player sound worse", simply becasue they can not be played as well.
In my opionion, a good quality intermediate or even student instrument can be played by a "good" player without making them sound bad. I also believe that the sound is much more the sound of the player than of the individual clarinet. However, that doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile for a professional/serious player to invest in a top quality instrument. There are certainly significant differences in tone quality, blowing style, intonation, etc that make a good player sound even better.
So to answer your question (in my humble opinion), a good player can still sound good on a "highschool" clarinet (a reasonably good one at least), but to really shine you want as excellent an instrument as possible, and I certainly reccommend a professional model if you plan to major in music.
From the persistence of noise comes the insistence of rage.
From the emergence of tone comes the divergence of thought.
From the enlightenment of music comes the wisdom of... silence.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
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Author: Lady Dream
Date: 2005-04-22 21:30
Going back to the getting a used R-13 issue....
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"an r13 really isnt that expensive, considering it should last you a lifetime if you take care of it properly. there are several used r13s on ebay for around $900 or so. i think you would be better off getting a used pro instrument then a brand new student or intermediate model."
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A word of warning...be very, very careful buying a clarinet off of Ebay. For one thing, unless there is a money back guarentee of some sort, you probably won't be able to test play it before purchasing. This means that you don't get to search around for the perfect instrument. There is a large variation in tone, intonation, etc. even among different R-13's, and, in my humble oppinion, it is very worthwhile to try out several before picking one you really like. Check the intonation, playing through the entire range infront of a tuner, and see where it goes sharp/flat, or better yet, don't look at the tuner, and have someone else tell you where it goes sharp/flat. Also, while testing them out, you may want to experiment with different barrel/mouthpiece/reed setups; you may find that a clarinet that plays poorly with one mouthpiece will sound wonderful with another.
(For example, when I was purchasing my R-13, it had problems with intonation in the throat tones until I got a different tuning barrel (Deg Accubore USA 66mm), which greatly improved both tone and intonation on this clarinet. On the other hand, it doesn't sound nearly so good on my teacher's clarinet or my old one.)
Also, on Ebay, you don't know what kind of shape a used instrument is in. It may say "rarely played and like new", but you can never know for sure without actually seeing it. Beware of cheap clarinets passed off as being in much better shape than they are.
I'm not saying it's impossible to find a good deal with Ebay, but I suggest that you procede with extreme caution, and if it were me I would much rather get a used instrument somewhere else.
I definitely agree with Clarisax that a good condition used professional model is a better choice than a new student one if you're going into music ed. I'd suggest looking asking your band director, music store, etc.
From the persistence of noise comes the insistence of rage.
From the emergence of tone comes the divergence of thought.
From the enlightenment of music comes the wisdom of... silence.
We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2005-04-22 22:14
I was not prepared when going to college, either, so don't feel bad-
I didn't realize that I would need such a high end clarinet for Music Education - I was told within minutes of my first lesson that my clarinet was not up to par and that I would need to chalk up $1800 for a new one. GULP!!!!
It sucks, but start saving now- get a summer job, extra work, etc. Save save save. Between the mouthpiece, instrument, decent reeds, etc, you're looking at around $2000 to start.
What number reeds are you using? If you are using weak reeds, the higher notes won't come out.
LONG TONES- Lots of long tones with a good, NOT super tight embouchure willl help too.
Good luck!
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