 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-04-14 19:15
I was practicing today and was wondering if anyone has ever tried to make a reverse clarinet- meaning that the right hand would now be on the top and the left hand would be on the bottom while all the keys were mirror images of what they were now. It would be fully playable for the new arrangement of the hands.
Would this new clarinet help strengthen all of the fingers?
Would it help make a person a better player on the normal Bb clarinet?
Would it be easier to finger faster on this new clarinet?
What do you think would happen? Would this be a worthwhile project to try for the clarinet community?
This is just a whim of course...but tell me what YOU think!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-04-14 19:46
"IF there are 2 [or more] ways of doing somethin', you can count on it that it will be tried". Prob someone's quote besides me !! You may recall pics of cl players playing with the reed on top, [one in Groves]. Old recorders and likely early cls, with few keys, had a "winged" lower-note key so that it could be fingered both ways. I thank the good lord for standardization in our "jungle", its tough enough considering the "double Boehm clarinet" !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-04-14 19:53
Clarinetgirl06 wrote:
> I was practicing today and was wondering if anyone has ever
> tried to make a reverse clarinet- meaning that the right hand
> would now be on the top and the left hand would be on the
> bottom while all the keys were mirror images of what they were
> now. It would be fully playable for the new arrangement of the
> hands.
Such animals (left-handed clarinets) exist:
http://www.avrahm-galper.woodwind.org/Images/Left.jpg
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-04-14 19:59
What did this reverse clarinet sound like? Did it help someone play the Bb better? Did it improve anything?????
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-04-14 23:17
Do you think the 'normal' clarinet was made for right handed people (because most people are right handed), so maybe left handed people could actually play the backwards one better?....
Or not....
Just a random thought....
Kinda like all those crazy chairs in classrooms being for right handed people.
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
Post Edited (2005-04-14 23:17)
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Author: RosewoodClarinet
Date: 2005-04-14 23:32
Actually, I have a trouble with right hand. I am left-handed. Also, I have a trouble with finger technique on clarinet. I really have to practice. And, I realize that I am feeling really down after the unhappy audition results. I want to play music with full of pleasure.
RosewoodClarinet
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-04-15 00:01
But consider that among the most difficult keys to operate on a standard clarinet are the LEFT-hand pinky spatulas --- reversing the keywork would only make that situation worse for a lefty.
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Author: RosewoodClarinet
Date: 2005-04-15 00:10
Actually, I have a trouble with excerpts like Shosti Sym. no.1, Rimsky-korsakov Sheherazade, and many others. If one finger on right finger gets messed up, whole passage gets messed up. I have to deal with these crazy technique things......aaagh!
RosewoodClarinet
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-04-15 03:46
Well, I am right handed and I was thinking that if I learned this reverse clarinet, then it would make my left hand stronger and, then I could maybe play better on the normal clarinet, because I feel that my right hand is better than my left hand technique wise. What do you think?
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-04-15 08:43
If this left hand / right hand business meant anything, people would make left-handed pianos. In fact, with an electronic keyboard it would be very easy to switch the entire keyboard to work the other way around.
Nobody bothers.
The only instrument that is frequently played left-handed is the guitar: go figure if that is from any real need or as a fashion statement.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: clarispark
Date: 2005-04-15 13:24
I'm left-handed, and I've been playing the clarinet for eight years. I've never had a problem with the fingerings as the clarinet is. Actually, when we started playing, I was the only one who didn't try putting right hand on top.
So anyway, I don't know why it's a bother--if I could play one with left hand on top, I wouldn't. And that's my two cents.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-04-15 13:41
How about the French Horn, D P? I had a wrong-way guitar player in a combo once, made no diff ! One of our grandsons has a "disadvantaged" right hand and arm, so I had the "little finger hook" on a cornet re-set for left hand valve operation, it worked OK, but he didn't have any real interest in music, disappointment ! Other ideas? Most insts need "ambidexterous" players, I guess. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-04-15 14:38
Don writes: "How about the French Horn, D P?"
How about it? I was a horn player long ago. I'm right handed. I operated the valves with my left hand like anyone else. I could pick up a trumpet and play it with my right hand. No difficulty (not with the fingering anyway), no confusion.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-04-15 15:02
"with an electronic keyboard it would be very easy to switch the entire keyboard to work the other way around."
My Yamaha SY99 (from 1991) can do it.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Terry Stibal
Date: 2005-04-15 16:39
And then there's the famous left handed saxophones that Les Brown's band once "used"...
Of course, what had happened was that the negative was reversed in the enlarger, and there were no other visual clues in the photo (other than hair parts, buttons on the wrong side, and right hand wedding rings) to tip off the viewer). Changes like this are often accidental, but in advertising are sometimes done on purpose (to get the folks in the picture facing the correct way for composition purposes, for example).
I once suggested that Selmer may have had a special plant on the Rive Gauche of the Seine, set up specifically to make these special instrument. Some anally retentive saxophone type said that he knew that there was no such factory. Some people have no sense of humor at all...
leader of Houston's Sounds Of The South Dance Orchestra
info@sotsdo.com
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Author: kal
Date: 2005-04-15 16:45
The only instrument that is frequently played left-handed is the guitar: go figure if that is from any real need or as a fashion statement.
My brother is left-handed and a guitar player. He's played both ways with a pick with little problem, but says that fingerpicking is extremely difficult if done with his less dominant hand. I'm sure that with years of practice this could be made a non-issue, but why start out at a disadvantage? The left-handed clarinet on the other hand...
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-04-15 16:58
>"with an electronic keyboard it would be very easy to switch the entire >keyboard to work the other way around."
>My Yamaha SY99 (from 1991) can do it.
>-Alex
If you have anything like my sense of humour, remind me never to invite you to organise a concert! ;-)
Steve
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Author: Camanda
Date: 2005-04-15 17:17
I'm left-handed, too, and never once has that impeded my clarinet ability. At least, not more than my clarinet inability.
Amanda Cournoyer
URI Clarinet Ensemble, Bass Clarinet
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-04-15 20:16
It's not the question of if you already can or cannot play the clarinet if you are left handed or right handed, what I am asking is what effects would come about if this clarinet was made as say a practice tool, such as a mind strengthening tool or a finger/wrist strengthening tool, or a muscle memory tool? I'm just wondering if it would improve technique on the regular Bb. Is there any way that I could get a hold of one of those few reverse clarinets?
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Author: dummer musiker
Date: 2005-04-15 22:50
I dont really see how it could improve your technique on a normal clarinet. Youd have to practice everything a different way. Why not just practice more on your normal clarinet?! Use the Bearman III to strengthen your mind....
Buy a contrabass. Probably wont improve your technique, but it sure is fun!
Im left handed too, and have never had any problems playing because of it, I was just curious if when whoever was designing the first woodwinds, if this somehow played a role. It seems like there were probably even fewer left handed people back then (didnt they used to try to switch everyone to their right hand? Something about the devil...?!).
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
Post Edited (2005-04-15 22:51)
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Author: ariel3
Date: 2005-04-16 02:02
Along this same line - I had a very good friend who, as a youngster, was a talented violist. He lost the tip of a finger on his left hand in a lawn mower accident.
This did not stop him. He simply restrung his viola backwards and continued to play right on through high school and college. Though he is not a professional musician, he does play very well and continues his joy of music to this day.
I have performed with him on several occasions - and it was most interesting when it came to placing him within the ensemble. But, as I recall, his talent and the need for a good viola player meant that that problem was overcome.
Now, I'll let you get back to clarinets.
Gene Hall
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-04-16 03:22
Steve wrote:
"If you have anything like my sense of humour, remind me never to invite you to organise a concert! ;-)"
Oh, come on! It'll be fun!
For the second number, I'll tune one keyboard to Pythagorean F# and another to just intonation.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: VermontJM
Date: 2005-04-23 03:40
So funny- I have been thinking about this lately-
Try (without an instrument) just switching hands and "playing" through some scales, using opposite pinkies- For me, my brain nearly EXPLODES.
It seems to me that switching hands wouldn't strengthen anything, but instead, teach incorrect patterns to your fingers- playing an instrument is muscle memory- it's a physical connection between the muscles and the brain that gets stronger every time you use it. Soooo... if you were to switch this, you would unwork everything you've done before (I think.)
Oh yeah- any current Boehms out there with this reverse system?
Post Edited (2005-04-23 03:41)
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-04-23 07:28
As has been said, they are made.
Howarths in London recently made one with mirrored keys for a left handed person with limited mobility, and it was fabulous. A real work of art, made as a special one off for them.
Nick
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2005-04-23 21:03
Hi:
For what it's worth:
I don't know which way is best, right hand down or up. I do know that my great uncle played Albert clarinet, and he used to tell me that he played one with the right hand up (I guess we'd call it a "left handed" one). Many folk musicians like him played the shepherd's flute with right hand up, and that's how I started as well. I looked and looked for an Albert horn that was built that way. I was told they existed, but never got lucky enough to find one, so I started with a regular Albert clarinet in 1963. I finally found one several years later in Greece, but didn't buy it. Meanwhile, I play the clarinet "regular style" or "right handed," but play the shepherd's flute, gaida (folk bagpipe), and karamoudza (folk shawm double reed) the other way (ie right hand up). Many folk musicians do this, since there are no keys and you can play either way. I don't find it to be a problem to play one instrument right handed and the others left handed. I guess it's strange, but it all seems equal.
Best regards.
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2005-04-25 12:39
As long as we are just hypothesizing, lets try to answer the original question:
Applying the laws of physics that make clarinets work, there is no reason why a left-handed clarinet shouldn't work. As to strengthening the left hand, I am not sure that this is particulary an issue. I use both hands in equal amounts when playing - to make any note requires all fingers of both hands - think about it - a finger NOT on the instrument when it shouldn't be is just as important as a finger being ON the instrument when it is needed.
Another point to ponder. All orchestral (as oppose to ethnic) woodwinds are traditionally fingered with the left hand at the top. Are there any instrument historians here who can tell us why?
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-04-25 14:14
A non-historian's speculation:
Since "most" people are right handed, the right hand / arm would be the "natural" stronger one to choose to physically support the instrument - hence it would be at the "far" end of the instrument.
Related: which is more important for cello/bass players - finger dexterity on the strings, or larger muscle control on the bowing? The instrument is essentially symetrical and the support is taken care of by the floor.
JDS
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-04-25 14:23
Baroque oboes and recorders were typically made so they could be played with either hand uppermost.
For this reason, the recorder was nicknamed the "flute a neuf trous" (nine-holed flute), the nine holes being the six main fingerholes, the thumb hole, and two alternative holes for the little finger of the lower hand, the unwanted hole being closed with wax. (Recorders of that period rarely had double holes as modern ones do.)
Similarly, the two-keyed oboe came later than the three-keyed oboe, because the third key was simply a duplicate low C key for "right-over-left" players, later abandoned. The Eb key wasn't duplicated, but had a double touchpiece.
I don't know whether there was any equivalent in the clarinet world. I also don't know whether there was any equivalent in the worlds of flutes and bassoons. If you think about it, both instruments, the bassoon especially, are asymmetric in a way that recorders and oboes are not. Moreover, a right-over-left flute player would get in the way of his colleagues in an orchestra, just as a string player who bowed with his left hand would. It is possible that it is this consideration that has led to the convention of left-over-right.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-04-25 16:54
Basically all woodwind instruments of early 18th century and earlier were built to play either way, even clarinets. The two keyed clarinet had a bell that you could turn anyway you liked. I have a copy of a Scherer three keyed baroque clarinet with the long E/B key being the third key. It has duplicated holes for F/C and you can turn the bell so that the long key can be executed with either one of the pinky keys or the lower thumb, the one you would choose. Even the bassoon was possible to play the other way since both dulcians and early baroque bassoons have the low f-key with touch pieces on both sides. Also the thumb keys are mounted in a row. I have never seen duplicated low Ab keys on a bassoon, only for the right pinky so maybe the introduction of that key is the turning point for the bassoon.
It was only when more keys were added that they had to create a standard for which way to play. I personnaly believe like J Stackpole that it became standard to have the right hand at the bottom because most people have a stronger right arm and that most players had chosen that way long before.
Alphie
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2005-04-25 17:26
Alphie - how about the flute?
I'm not a flute player, so may be wrong about this, but my understanding is that the embouchure hole on a modern flute is asymmetric so that you can't play with the flute held to the left, regardless of how you finger it. Maybe baroque flutes have a hole that can be blown from either side, or maybe right-over-left players used a different head-joint. Or maybe there never were any right-over-left flute players?
Of course, you could hold the flute to the right and play it right-over-left, but this would induce a very contorted position.
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I recall that when I was a little kid, if I gave my recorder to a non-playing kid to blow, more likely than not he would hold it right-over-left. I wonder whether this is somehow more instinctive, even though it is not what convention dictates.
Are we saying that some ethnic woodwinds are conventionally played right-over-left, or are we saying that ethnic woodwinds are played whichever way the player prefers? If the former, this would seem to disprove John Stackpole's explanation.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
Post Edited (2005-04-25 17:28)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-04-25 18:49
A baroque traverso can be played either way too. The hole is round and har basically the same undercut all the way around the embuchure hole.
Ethnic woodwinds I think are played any way the player likes depending on the local tradition.
When non woodwind players try an instrument I think they place their hands instinctively, like how they hold a vacuum cleaner, left or right.
Alphie
Post Edited (2005-04-25 19:21)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2005-04-25 19:22
Attachment: Flöjtist2.bmp (54k)
Attachment: Mayaflöjt2.bmp (23k)
Two pictures on fluteplayers, both holding the flutes reversed.
The picture of the boy is from the Swedish National Gallery. The other one is a Maya flute player.
Post Edited (2005-04-25 19:26)
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