 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2000-02-21 19:55
Why is there a ring around the hole for the right third finger (the ring finger)?
I can see why you need the rings for the 1st and 2nd fingers (to allow B flat and B to play in tune without compromise the pitch of C). But all the fingerings I know that have the R3 finger down also have at least one of R1 and R2 down as well, so there is no need for the ring.
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Author: steve
Date: 2000-02-21 20:25
hmmmm...throat Bb with R3 down on the ring (also closes the hole above R1 ring) and R little finger on C/F lever might give a good resonance fingering....
s.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-02-21 21:15
WOW,What a great question, I sure dont know of an answer. Maybe its a "carryover" from the Albert-Mullers which had the two lower rings but not one on their B/F#. You might pose this on "Early Clarinet" to see if the experts there can help. I'll review those [key] sections of Brymer and Rendall and report any findings. Don
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-02-21 21:45
This allows an alternate fingering for the chalumeau B natural, clarion F#, and altissimo Eb that can be useful in many passages. The third finger can be used *instead of* the middle finger or the forked fingering. For the altissimo Eb, this is often better in tune than using the middle finger (often nearly as good as the recommended but often awkward forked fingering).
Advanced fingering charts will show these alternates.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-02-21 23:32
Don Berger wrote:
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Good for you, Dee, its a good day when I learn something new. Don
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That means every day is a good day for me :^)
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Author: Daniel
Date: 2000-02-22 02:36
Haven't taken the time to read the other posts, so if someone else has said this, sory for being redundant.
You can play 1-3 Bb instead of 1-1 and you can play F# with third finger instead of second. I've used that fingering a number of times recently, but honestly can't remember where or in what pieces.
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2000-02-22 07:24
Thank you all!
These are all very useful fingerings which use the right third finger ring. Now, does anybody know which one was in the designer's mind when he decided to put the ring there?
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-02-22 13:20
Eoin wrote:
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Thank you all!
These are all very useful fingerings which use the right third finger ring. Now, does anybody know which one was in the designer's mind when he decided to put the ring there?
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For the clarinet, the Boehm system, which was originally developed for the flute, was adapted for the clarinet by Klose. If you look at a flute chart, these 3rd finger choices are shown on a little more regular basis. I've seen no literature that discusses the reason for the choices though it is possible that it exists. This was over 150 years ago so it would be hard to go back and ask Boehm or Klose.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-02-22 23:10
I use the right 3rd finger ring for two important fingerings: the "resonance" fingering for the throat Bb (which adds the left and right ring fingers and the low F key to the regular fingering) and the altissimo Eb,
(T/R - 2 3 / - - 6 Eb)
The Eb fingering is particularly useful in measure 5 of the Brahms First Sonata, where you have to slur up a tenth from the clarion C. The alternate fingering suggested on most fingering charts (with the right middle finger and Eb resonance) is impossibly flat, but the one with the right ring finger + Eb resonance is pretty much in tune. The sound is a bit duller than with the standard fingering (right index finger and ring finger "sliver" key with Eb resonance), but in the altissimo, that's not a problem, and that note is not the harmonically important one. Also, the slur up is easy and reliable.
However, the clarion F# that follows is too high with just the right ring finger, and it's the important note harmonically -- the one toward which the phrase points. There are four alternatives, all unattractive. You can (1) bend the pitch down with your embouchure, (2) shade the right middle finger hole with your fingertip, (3) switch from the right ring finger to the right middle finger, or (4) slide to the right index finger + sliver key. Each of these is a hazardous change or spoils the tone.
For several years, I tried sliding over to the standard (sliver key) fingering for the Eb, but I could never be sure it would be a clean change to the Eb in combination with the wide leap. On the other hand, the transition to the following F# was perfect, and that's the harmonically important note to which the phrase points.
For me, the best compromise is to play the high Eb with the right ring finger, which gives a reliable slur up from C and has a smooth tone color, and then rotate my right wrist slightly counter-clockwise, which helps lower my index finger, helps pull my right ring finger and little finger off the hole and key, and positions my ring finger near the sliver key. I also give a light tongue stroke to cover up any bobble.
So, I hear you ask, Brahms was an excellent orchestrator, and he had Muhlfeld to work with directly -- then why did he write such a difficult change? The answer is, he didn't. He wrote the opening four bars of the First Sonata an octave lower, making the slur from chalumeau C to clarion Eb, and staying in the clarion for the F# and thereafter. During rehearsals, Muhlfeld transposed the first four bars up the octave, saying it wasn't effective in the lower octave, and Brahms agreed. (James Campbell on his recording plays the opening the way Brahms wrote it. My opinion is that Muhlfeld was right. Even Campbell, a truly excellent player, is ineffective down so low.)
But then why did Muhlfeld set himself that trap? Once again, he didn't. His instruments had a transitional fingering system that used Boehm fingerings in the left hand and the old fingerings in the right hand, with the clarion F# and altissimo Eb both fingered with just the right index finger (and Eb resonance). His instruments also had a key for the right thumb to handle the tricky passages in that area. Players of German system instruments today don't even know this problem exists for us French instrument barbarians.
There's no perfect solution. Do what works for you. Just stick to whatever you decide, so that it feels the same each time.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-02-23 15:45
Eoin wrote:
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Thank you all!
These are all very useful fingerings which use the right third finger ring. Now, does anybody know which one was in the designer's mind when he decided to put the ring there?
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My seance didn't get any answers, so I don't really know, but I'm guessing (based on experience with recorders and with some old clarinets that don't have this ring) that it's there because it's easier to feel the hole and cover it properly if there's a metal ring. I notice that I'm much more likely to place a finger sloppily and leak air on a hole without a ring.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-02-23 17:25
I didn't get any answers either but I think its part of the carryover from the system Boehm designed for the flute rather than being for one particular note. Flute charts commonly show the use of the third right hand finger as an alternate to the middle right hand finger. As an engineer, if I were adapting an existing system such as this, I too would have kept it to permit similar alternate fingerings on the clarinet for ease of use even though in some cases they do of course run a bit sharp for us (except for the altissimo Eb, which pulls into tune nicely with this).
It is doubtful that it would have been included to make it easier to find and cover the hole or a ring would have been included for the left hand third finger hole.
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Author: James Marioneaux
Date: 2000-02-24 14:30
I am not sure, but I think that some of the albert systems only had two rings. Does anybody know for sure? A d to f# trill is easier holding down the third finger for f# rather than the second. I don't know if that is what they originally had in mind or not.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-02-24 15:13
I have several late 1800 Albert-Mullers which go from no UJ rings with 2 LJ rings up to 2 UJ's with 2 LJ's. Look in our "good books" under history to view the progression. Don
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-02-24 16:50
James Marioneaux wrote:
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I am not sure, but I think that some of the albert systems only had two rings. Does anybody know for sure? A d to f# trill is easier holding down the third finger for f# rather than the second. I don't know if that is what they originally had in mind or not.
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An Albert system lower joint has rings for the second and third finger. However to do a (clarion) D to F# trill on one you simple trill the second and third fingers. Due to difference in hole placement, the F# is merely the first finger. So this would not have been the reason for that ring on the Albert system.
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2000-02-24 17:30
The rings on the R2 and R3 holes of an Albert system clarinet are to let it play the notes A, B flat and B in tune without using any extra keys. The fingerings are:
A: R1 + R2 covered, R3 open
B flat: R1 + R3 covered, R2 open
B: R1 covered, R2 + R3 open
The size of the R3 hole is just big enough to make A in tune. The size of the R2 hole is just big enough to make B flat in tune. So when you open both, by Murphy's law, the resultant B is flat. To overcome this, the rings connected to an extra hole and pad allow this extra hole to open when neither R2 nor R3 is covered, sharpening the note to a proper B.
The same reasoning applies on a Boehm to the rings on the R1 and R2 holes, when playing the notes B flat, B and C.
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