 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-02-25 01:10
There are many people(pros and amateurs) who use saliva to wet reeds.But Keith Stein states not to use saliva but to use water and Morgan wrote the same thing in a paper strip inside his reeds boxes.
As Mr.Fernando(sorry if I mistake your name) from Brasil stated in Klarinet@sneezy.org,reeds lives depend on how many micro-organisms go into reed-organization.As saliva includes very many germs,or other inorganic contents like zink or sulfur however often you gurgle,using saliva may l shorten reed-lives.
If we use water instead,I even think it should not be hard-water(includes silica,carcium,or soda),but soft-water should be used.There are also commercially available reed sanitaization liquid such as ReedLife.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-02-25 01:25
Sorry two things I forgot to state:
1)There are some ingredients to invite micro-organism.Typical one is ammonia,and maybe sulfur.
2)After reading microorganism things I now store my reeds(about 100 pieces) inside a Japanese tea cylindrical container made of cheery tree peels,which holds dryness and keeps micro-organisms from entering inside.Maybe I am doing too much!
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Author: Dee
Date: 1999-02-25 01:58
Mainly it is a matter of convenience I think. It's available. It probably does shorten reed life one way or another however.
As far as germs living on the reeds, well I always have at least 10 reeds (sometimes more) that I rotate through. Thus each reed gets a chance to completely dry out between uses. Most germs will only live a few hours on a surface, especially a dry one. This approach also seems to eliminate the possibility of mold as I've never had a problem with it. Of course I wipe off as much moisture as possible before putting the reed away. This also seems to help.
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Author: Meri
Date: 1999-02-25 02:47
I happen to agree with Hiroshi, but on different grounds. I find that if I use water to wet my reeds, I do not get the "soaked reed" feeling after a long period of playing. Whereas using saliva, I get that feeling after about 1 1/4-1 1/2 hours. Sometimes I am forced to change reeds because of it--in spite of rotating reeds. (4 Vandorren Regulars--I find the V-12's too soft, and the soaked reed phenomenon occurs more often.
Meri
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Author: Paul Wusow
Date: 1999-02-25 03:53
Actually, the problem is more the saliva itself rather than any micro-organisms... Saliva, when dry, crystalizes and this builds up on the reed weighting the cane down and blocking the pores of the cane. This crystalized saliva does not come of with water, or more saliva. Often, people use ultra sonic cleaners inorder to keep reeds clean... but if you "polish" your reeds, the ultra sonic cleaner will defeat the purpose (undo the polishing....) Some people keep reeds in a humidified box (using a salt humidifier, which does not promote mold and mildew). If the reed is not allowed to dry completely, the saliva does not have a chance to crystalize... There are some articles about this... I'll dig them out...
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Author: Rick2
Date: 1999-02-25 03:59
But isn't it a moot point to a younger (read less experienced) player that still lets a lot of moisture from the mouth into the mouthpiece? It gets salivia anyway so what's the difference?
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Author: Albert
Date: 1999-02-25 04:06
I agree with Rick2. You're gonna put the reed in your mouth if you like it or not, so germs are still present, even if you use water. I say take a lick at the reed. :o)
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Author: Paul Wusow
Date: 1999-02-25 18:00
Did any of you reed what I wrote???????? GERMS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.... CRYSTALIZATION OF SALIVA IS THE PROBLEM.... MOISTURE IS ABSORBED INTO THE REED--YES---SO WHY WOULDN'T YOU WANT TO USE WATER, AS IT DOES NOT CRYSTALIZE (HARDEN) LIKE SALIVA!! HELLO???? HELLO?
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Author: Lelia
Date: 1999-02-26 00:42
I think it's les important how we soak a reed before playing (since it gets full of spit during playing anyway) than it is to rinse out the reed with water afterwards. After I rinse the reed, I blot most of the water out of it with a washcloth I keep in the bathroom as my reed and mouthpiece towel. I store the reed in an open plastic reed holder that lets the cane dry out overnight. Never have had problems with unusual deterioration of reeds, mildew, grunge, etc.
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 1999-02-26 00:48
Yes,I heard(read) every replies.I thought like this:
1)OK,The larger problem seems saliva in U.S. because of crystallization in dried condition.I have humidifier called dampit, I bought three ones, for upper joint,lower joint,and reed container.They say the former two should be used to avoid cracking of grenadilla below 50% RH,but they do not explain what is the purpose of the one for reed container.I found an answer is to avoid crystallization.I also read a caustion in Reed Australia's HP that too much dried reeds are quite easily humidified.When they are dry,they should be not only wet for a few minutes,but also they absorbs moisture from saliva during playing and lose its vibrating ability quite soon and cannot be used for long playing like symphony or others.This is another purpose to keep humid (at least 50%RH) the reeds.
2)As to reply by Albert that anyway reeds are exposed to saliva during playing and it's same whether we use water or saliva.I thought like this:But when wetting reeds,water or saliva enters into the very heart of reeds and reeds are nearly saturated conditions.Yes,reeds are exposed to saliva anyway during playing but it does not enter into the heart but the surface since the reeds are saturated with moisture.So,it is not the same.
3)Maybe I would conclude for myself:
Use water to wet reeds;rinse and dry them after playing;Use humidifier when too dry to avoid crystallization of saliva sticked to reed surface.
I became very much interested in artificial reeds...
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Author: Paul Wusow
Date: 1999-02-26 01:29
Everyone who thinks saliva and h20 are the same needs to research this topic. I'm tired of talking to deaf ears...
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Author: Ray Swing
Date: 1999-02-26 15:01
I appreciate and understand the info from Paul.
I really like Hiroshi final analysis and although I have always been one of those who "wet" the reed using only my saliva I am going to try Hiroshi's plan for a while since it is quit easy to impliment.
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Author: Ginny
Date: 1999-02-27 18:38
I'm jumping in rather late, but a few questions (and no answers come to mind.)
It seems to me that water and saliva are not equivalent, in that saliva has enzymes that actually start the digestive process. I recall that these enzymes act on starch particularly. This may be part of the breaking in process for reeds, which may also be the breaking down process.
In addition, the visocity of saliva is very different than that of water. It would seem likely that the rate that the liquids would be absorbed (and retained) would be very different.
I suggest that we could do a Jr. High School level science fair project. Perhaps each taking a box of reeds and treating half with saliva and half with water and then attempting to rate them. Of course it should be double blind...which introduces a level of difficulty...but maybe we could just take out a degree of freedom on an ANOVA and call it even.
As to germs and crystalised spit... I've heard that dog saliva has natural anaseptic in it, but I think this is a playground rumor........
Ginny
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Author: Alec Thigpen
Date: 1999-02-28 17:42
Wow! What a bunch of A/R folks out there! This reminds me of yacht racers wet-sanding their hulls and applying fish oil - always looking for the tiny edge that will get them a couple of feet advantage, and not spending the time ( in this case, a good selection of reeds and lots of practice ) to learn the skills and theory to get to the top. The big gains are practice and study, not the reed moistening method. However, I really never laughed out loud at the other yacht racers as they tried to catch up.
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Author: UGH!
Date: 1999-03-01 06:51
Alec--
What is wrong with learning about reed longevity and cane durability? I can assure you that these are important facts to people who perform a lot and do not have endless hours to spend on reeds...
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Author: Ginny
Date: 1999-03-01 23:04
Alec Thigpen wrote:
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Wow! What a bunch of A/R folks out there! This reminds me of yacht racers wet-sanding their hulls and applying fish oil - always looking for the tiny edge that will get them a couple of feet advantage, and not spending the time ( in this case, a good selection of reeds and lots of practice ) to learn the skills and theory to get to the top. The big gains are practice and study, not the reed moistening method. However, I really never laughed out loud at the other yacht racers as they tried to catch up.
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Alec, your A/R comment sure makes you appear to be an A/H.
Hiroshi is a detail kind of guy and going places considering his dedication, age and interest. I like his posts, they make me think. Reeds make a big difference in sound and discussion of this may not lead to improvement, but I don't think the few minutes spent thinking about reeds will seriously impact my practice time.
BTW, your way off base on 'yacht' racing. I go out on a 55 footer (boat, yachts have cutsy bronzed deck apes that serve canapes in my book) and the boat gets hauled and sanded before the race season. We gain TWO KNOTS off the wind. Like from 10 to 12!!!! We fly by everyone off the wind. I'll be sure to wave bye bye to you.
On the wind we improve from 6 to 7 when clean. I don't think that extra weekend of practice would speed us up like that. A diver scrubs the bottom mid season. This boat won the West Marine Cup race from the West Coast to Hawaii a few years back, with a clean sanded bottom.
I am told that the America's cup races haul out and use 600 sand paper for practice DAILY. They use 1200 grit during the race. Of course you know so much more than Tom Blackaller did.
A one percent difference separates first from sixth place in local races, but if you've got guys in the same class boat a slick bottom will make the difference, given they have about the same experience. Of course if you're in a cat and they're in a Lido... you'll sail by them, dirty bottom and all.
I guess the point is that if you want to do your absolute best, you need to go all out, whether it's music or racing. No point in practicing more to make up for a crappy reed or a foul bottom. Good reeds are hard to find.
Ginny
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Author: Alec Thigpen
Date: 1999-03-05 04:51
I didn't mean my exclamation point to be interpreted to be harsh criticism, only with a wink and a smile. I do smile at people who think there are short cuts and magic. I have over 30 years in both woodwinds and yacht racing (one design mostly), and have won National and N. A. championships in "out of the box" one designs and older "boats", on mostly tactics and focus. There are people out there who can beat me at will in slower boats by their superior skills. I am not a great sailor or musician, they are not my chosen profession, but I enjoy both. I generally believe people get better at a discipline by study and practice more than by gimmickry. I don't take my observation of "A/R" to be in the same vein as "A/H". Maybe I misinterpreted the term "A/R" to be somewhat obsessive and detail oriented. If that was incorrect, I stand corrected. Apology rendered. Mostly this is an informative and light web site, and I don't want to get off that basis.
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