 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-03-26 13:26
Okay, I know everyone says you must give it to a competent repairman for repadding etc, but has anyone actually done it themselves? I notice there are kits being sold for repadding/recorking.
Assuming you have a set of small screwdrivers and lots of patience, are there any reasons why not?
Steve
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-03-26 13:44
IMHO, it DEPENDS, some mechanical and playing ability [comes? with experience. PERHAPS] is highly desireable, like swimming in shark-infested waters !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-03-26 14:31
Steve,
"Been there, done that",.... learned not to try again (and I have a huge workshop with many tools plus books on musical instrument repair). Now I take my toys to a pro. Your experience may be different - hopefully better than mine.
Regards,
Hans
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2005-03-26 15:37
If you have a beater instrument that you can practice with go for it. I would say a beater instrument is one that cost less than 50.00 US (I have one here) in bad need of work.
I would not start with an expensive instrument and try a full repad.
Start small if you can.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-03-26 17:10
you can get one of those repair kits, and practice on an old ebay clarinet.
the problem you'll quickly hit is that you'll mess up some pads when learning - burn them with a alcohol lamp or torch, tear a few, etc. then you're stuck as those kits only supply 17-20 pads. you'll also hit situations where they don't supply you the correct size pad. pads have thicknesses (thin, medium, thick) and diameter (9mm, 10mm, 10.5mm...) considerations , e.g. they need to be both the correct diameter plus the correct thickness for your particular instrument.
the same problem will happen with tenon cork - you get maybe 4 strips in those kits, which is fine until you mess up a few while learning. or have a clarinet with an odd size tenon and the kit's supplied cork doesn't fit.
you will also discover that when you remove keys on an old instrument, pieces of key cork will fall off. sometimes springs break. you repace a spring and discover the post rotates (is loose) when you try to tighten the new spring. you find cracks in the wood, damaged tone holes, bent keys, etc.
the kits are great for repairing a few pads , or one or 2 pieces of cork, but for a full repad, you'll find you need a larger assortment of cork and pads to get started. as a minimum you'll need 6-8 dozen pads in 4-5 common sizes, plus sheet cork in 3 or 4 different thicknesses.
plus some tools - screwdriver, pad slick, feeler gauge, stick shellac, alcohol lamp, tenon scraper, several types of pliers, sand paper, razor blades.
so you can easily need $200-300 worth of tools and parts to get started.
a book that will help you get started is 'Instrument Repair for the Music Teacher' by Burton Stanley, Alfred Publishing. you might want to get a copy of that or a similar book and read it before deciding whether or not to proceed.
it really helps to take a class, or have someone who knows how to do the work guide you. and it takes time and patience to learn. most clarinet players don't want to invest the time or money in parts and tools to mess with it.
if you do , cool, get an old klunker and go for it. just understand it takes a lot of time and patience to learn, and more parts than you get in those 'DIY' kits. you'll also hit some problems you can't solve initially without help - bent keys, loose posts, damaged tone holes, broken springs, stuck pivot screws, etc. e.g., there is more to it than just slapping a new pad in there.
-paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: GBK
Date: 2005-03-26 17:24
"...'Instrument Repair for the Music Teacher' by Burton Stanley, Alfred Publishing...."
Burton Stanley used to teach clarinet and saxophone at the Crane School of Music (SUNY Potsdam) as well as instruct numerous courses on instrument repair. He did the instrument repair for all the students at Crane.
He worked on my clarinet numerous times and I don't remember him ever charging for it.
He would replace, seat and level a pad so fast it would make your head spin...GBK
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-03-26 20:07
Wow! Thanks for all the replies. Maybe I'll have a go.
Meanwhile, what is a 'beater' instrument? I've never heard this before.
Regards,
Steve
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-03-26 20:30
-- "you start to live when you learn to swedge!" --
'beater' 'swedge' ????
Look guys, I don't know what you're smoking, but at least send some to me!!
Steve
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Author: Fred
Date: 2005-03-26 21:34
beater - something you don't cry over if you mess it up; a throw-away clarinet like maybe an old Bundy you don't care about
swedge - mechanical adjustment to remove play from keys (but not just a turn the screw type of mechanical adjustment)
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-03-26 22:12
Thanks Fred. I'll get myself a swedge and find myself an old 'beater'!
Steve
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Author: pewd
Date: 2005-03-26 22:36
ebay - bundy or vito are plentiful.
the used vitos are durn good horns - vastly underrated. the last one i got off of ebay was $85 including shipping. it needed one piece of cork. whoopee, 3cents worth of cork and a few drops of contact cement, plus one new spring, it now plays beautifully. for one you want to practice working on, you can usually get an ebay horn for $50 or so, plus shipping. theres an old bundy ending in a few minutes going for $22 another no name going for $15. if you screw up a $20 horn, so what, toss it and try again on another one.
swedging tools - ferrees tools 269 965 0511 (michigan, usa), have them send you a catalog. one presumes there are suppliers in your part of the world, but i wouldnt know where to go in italy. they do ship internationally. has to be a european supplier somewhere....
many tools you can get locally - contact cement, pliers, screwdriver, razor blades, and you can make your own alcohol lamp out of an old glass jar - stanley's book has a picture and sugestions how to make one.
stanley's book has some good photos. amazon.com sells them for $19.95.
have fun.
-paul
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Pete
Date: 2005-03-26 22:52
I know it may be just a matter of symantics, but I go crazy when I hear people talking about seating a pad.
Here is my theory of padding.
If the pad is leveled properly, your tone hole is flat and your key fits properly with no play, you do not have to seat the pad or push an indentation into it. Artifically created "creases", "seats", "indentaions", etc. will always come out or change over time with temperature and humidity changes resulting in a leak. A properly leveled pad will form it's own seat that corresponds with the spring tension if it is a normally closed key, or finger pressure if it is a normally open key. You will have a very stable pad with stable adjustments.
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Author: Bnatural
Date: 2005-03-27 05:49
isn't windcraft in the UK... if that makes life any simpler for you... I think that's who they are
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Author: nickma
Date: 2005-03-27 19:01
Seating a pad is easy. Corking and adjusting is harder to do well.
I started overhauling when I wanted to change a clarinet and bought one that needed work from ebay. Now I've done 12, love it, and have got good at it.
Understanding how making a change on one cork, or one pad height, can affect the other notes, is the key. You won't do that first off the bat. But with practise you can get good.
Nick
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-03-27 20:40
Thanks for all the advice.
Nick, are there any guides/instructions you can recommend online?
How did you learn?
Thanks,
Steve
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Author: fredackerman
Date: 2005-03-28 02:29
Steve, Although I'm very handy there are certain things in my life I don't mess with, plumbing, watches, cameras, my teeth and especially my horns.. You are a brave guy! Good Luck.
Fred
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-28 02:43
I have replaced those corks under keys (not the pads)...I had to take all the keys off of the upper section to do it and buy special cork and cut it out and glue it on there and everything. it was fine. just make sure you know what your doing...dont loose any screws or springs. and make sure you put everything back where it's supposed to go. I wouldn't recommend it if you are not comfortable, but I took mine apart with NO experience. no one told me what to do or anything. I had no idea how the clarinet functioned. actually taking mine apart taught me a lot about the inner workings of the clarinet and saved me a lot of money and about 3 days of being clarinet-less. and quite a bit of driving. and I didn't ruin the clarinet. I haven't had any problems yet. however, this was NOT a re-padding (I just took it over to my repair-man to get the lower section repadded, among other things). I'm too nervous about screwing that up. but I would replace my own tenon corks if needed as well as key corks. (like the one on the sliver key and on the thing kind of connecting the E and the F- first space)
-Lindsie
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2005-03-28 19:01
Lindsie,
Sounds to me like you did an awful lot! As for repadding, from what I've read on the net, the actual padding is not the problem, it's more the fear of not being able to put it all back together again I think we all know that feeling of discovering a screw left over and wondering where on earth it came from!
-- "Steve, Although I'm very handy there are certain things in my life I don't mess with, plumbing, watches, cameras, my teeth and especially my horns.. " --
Hi Fred, it depends on what you mean by handy. We once had a guy in to build a fireplace in the corner of the room and attach it to the chimney on the roof. He was experienced, did a fantastic job and I would never have attempted it, but when he came to attaching the flexible metal join to the chimney, all his brute strength and experience didn't help. I had a go, and very, very slowly I was able to slide it onto the metal tube. Where his experience had failed, my slow but methodical attempt succeeded.
I totally agree about plumbing, teeth etc. I have a jinx on plumbing so never touch it! I only have to look at a tap and it leaks! As for teeth, here in Italy, a visit to the dentist probably costs the same as a small car in the USA, so we tend to wait until visiting our relatives in Britain or Poland where it's much cheaper.
Thanks for all the advice. I'm waiting for some ebay cheapies and will practise before I touch anything valuable!
Steve
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-03-28 20:38
stevensfo,
Re: "the actual padding is not the problem, it's more the fear of not being able to put it all back together again I think we all know that feeling of discovering a screw left over and wondering where on earth it came from!"........ you are partially right: pad replacement is simple enough, but they need to meet perfectly with the clarinet tone hole when you close them; i.e., the alignment is crucial. Pads must also open to the exactly right height. Good repair techs are very busy for a reason.
As far as the screws are concerned, you can disassemble from top down or bottom up and stick the screws into a piece of styrofoam in the order of removal to keep them from getting lost or out of order.
Good luck,
Hans
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-03-28 21:38
Steve,
There are some pretty good instructions for cleaning a clarinet, and replacing pads and tenon corks right here on this website:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/Equipment/Care/index.html
Before you take an instrument apart, devise a system to keep the various rods and screws organized so that you can put them back where they came from. Using a separate plastic sandwich bag for each key and its related rod/screws is one approach. Ferree's tools has a nice, inexpensive board for this purpose but I don't know how easy it would be for you to purchase from them, if, as it appears, you are in Italy.
If a wooden clarinet is really grungy, I wash it gently with warm water and Murphy's Oil Soap, before the first oil application. Plastic clarinets I wash with disinfectant soap.
The first couple of clarinets I did, I actually "carved" key corks from wine bottle corks. They took extra time but worked fine.
If you search the archives, you will find other advice. IMO, the main rule is "first do no harm." In other words, if at all possible, avoid making irreversible structural changes. If you follow that rule, even if something doesn't work out, you can always take the instrument to a repair shop for finishing touches.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-03-29 11:54
For many of the problems that you are sure to encounter, there have been threads here covering them, including many posts by some very able technicians. The search facility can be very useful.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-29 12:40
"Using a separate plastic sandwich bag for each key and its related rod/screws is one approach."
True, but perhaps a better one is to immediately return the screw to it's proper location after removing the key. Despite appearances "identical" screws are not usually interchangeable.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Avie
Date: 2005-03-29 13:14
Just as important as the mechanical disassembly and assembly of the keys is the use of the proper contact cement and careful application to the pads and cup that if not correctly applied can leak or loosen or eventually fall out. A important component in the process is that the contact cement adheres to the pad and cup for lasting results. Maybe one of our BB techs techs can recommend the best brand of contact cement that you can use. Otherwise than that I would say go for it.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-03-29 14:46
I agree, BobD and avie , well said. Re: cement/glue, I still prefer the Micro Pad & Cork, which I've been told is shellac in a solvent. Takes "drying time", yes, but allows seating/floating time and is soluble in hydrocarbon solvents etc. To each his own goo. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2005-03-30 11:28
In response to Bnatural:
Yes, there is a Windcraft in the UK - Maidenhead - and very good they are too. They completely rebuilt a 1924 Conn alto sax for me and now it is the envy of every sax player I know. The laquer is in poor condition, but the instrument sings very sweetly.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-03-30 11:43
They also stock most if not all of the Ferrees range.
They also stock an outstanding contact adhesive, "Evostick Impact Adhesive", which Ferrees does not stock.
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