 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bigno16
Date: 2005-03-27 14:23
I've been told by one of my friends that I have a "pretty, but puny" sound. And I agree most of the time. My sound isn't as big and dare I say, powerful, as I would like it to be. Sometimes it seems like I'm trying too hard and sometimes not trying hard enough.
He believes that I need to work on getting more air through the instrument in order to make this happen. And I since I'm playing a wind instrument, that is also linked to breathing. Is this the main thing that will help? And what else can I do to obtain this bigger, more resonant sound?
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Author: ch
Date: 2005-03-27 14:33
a bigger sound as in louder sound? a louder sound is obtained by focusing your air not on a small spot but over a wider area. for better projection, you air speed should be faster. it is not true that faster air means louder. it appears to be louder but in fact, it is only projected better.
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-03-27 14:58
Hmmm (warning - physics ahead...)
The waves of high and low pressure bouncing back and forth in the clarinet tube are the sound.
The distance between high and low pressure regions (which is controlled by the effective length of the tube - the fingetring) is the wavelength, which converts to frequency - the note or tone - via the speed of the waves.
The speed is the same no matter the wavelength - that's the speed of sound.
But the loudness is controlled by the amplitude of those waves - the (relative) highness and lowness of the pressure zones.
To achieve higher pressure, you have to have more air pushed closer together.
I would then think you WOULD just blow harder - push more air past the vibrating reed - to get more volume. (I realize this can change the tone a bit - but that is a musical skill problem, not simple physics.)
Also can anybody define what ch calls "projection" - seems like one of those subjective terms like "dark" or "German sound" that is a tad difficult to pin down.
If I am speaking to a group and I want to "project" my voice so the back row can hear me, I just talk lounder. What else?
JDS
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Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2005-03-27 15:29
If you want to hear the difference between thin and rich sound, listen to a recording of Jacques Lancelot and Charles Neidich.
There is a difference between projection and volume. If you just put your lips together and blow, you'll make the correct pitch, and you may be able to make it loud, but it will be thin and will not project well. Biting, loose embochure and narrow air will make the sound thin. The embochure should be very firm but not tight, your chin should protrude ("flat chin"), and you should put plenty of air in the instrument.
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"You have to play just right to make dissonant music sound wrong in the right way"
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Author: Bill
Date: 2005-03-27 15:40
My teacher tells me this all the time. And it is important. You need to fill out the notes and the spaces between with a full sound. Like packing ice cream into a cone. Do it, man!
However, my own (nearly ludicrious) opinion is that how you address the instrument differs each time based on what you are playing, your mood that hour, and your set-up. I never push enough air through the clarinet during my lesson hour because I am scared to death of playing in front of my teacher. It's now to the point that I will probably have to discontinue my lessons.
But yesterday I dove into a Rose etude and I wish to God I had been recording myself. I left the clarinet buzzing. The room was humming.
Everything is connected. There are resons for everything, and sometimes the more picaune and technical you become about the matter ("stand in front of a mirror and practice lowering the corners of your mouth..." etc.), the further you get from a genuine resolution. Unfortunately, in my *extremely* limited experience, this seems to be the way of most clarinet teaching.
Bill.
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Author: John Stackpole
Date: 2005-03-27 16:38
I guess I tend to fall back on my physics/meteorology background & training.
If I can't measure something - or define it in terms of other things I can measure - I have no idea what it is.
I can measure volume/loudness, with a dB meter.
I can measure tones/notes with a frequency meter, my Korg "chromatic tuner".
If I had expensive equipment, I could measure the whole frequency spectrum of a tone as played on a clarinet (or other instrument). There would be differences between instruments, and probably between different clarinets and people producing the same tone.
How do I measure "projection"?
How do I measure "thin" or "rich"? "Dark" or "brilliant"? I might "hear" a difference - that is rather subjective - but someone else might not. Maybe acoustic physics people can measure them - any around here?
Idle questions before a tasty (and how do I measure THAT?) Easter dinner. (If I try to start measuring that, the cook, my wife, may never speak to me again.)
JDS
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Author: ginny
Date: 2005-03-27 17:35
JDS, You probably would need an o-scope to see any of the above. My sense is that the richer tone is due to appropriate overtones not merely volumne.
Air is fundamental but emboucher is as well. I find if I get away from the rails of the reeds I have more of the tone I want. Lower lip coating the teeth appropriate pressure. But I have much to learn. Those who can get the 'ping' on a staccato note have the tone I want.
Has anyone done any experiements on tone with an oscillascope to a give data and visuals to what we hear?
Bigno, do you have a teacher?
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Author: Bigno16
Date: 2005-03-27 17:39
Yes, of course I do. She's never said anything about it, but I know it's true. I mean, when I listen to a recording of my band doing Bolero, my friend played the first half of the solo very loudly and clearly, yet when I came in there was a noticeable difference in projection. (This was also last year, I am better now.)
I agree on wanting that 'ping' on staccato as well, and I think that results from my original question.
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Author: ginny
Date: 2005-03-27 17:39
Just spotted the Drs. studies in the "dark sound" thread. Available somewhere?
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2005-03-27 17:49
When you can feel the air in your chest, nose and throat vibrate in sympathy with your clarinet - THAT is a big sound.
This can only be accomplished with what Pete Fountain calls an "open" throat.
It has more to do with the sound in your nasopharynx than you may imagine.
Singers strive for years to generate that point of "focus".
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-03-27 18:30
The terms "Dark", "Bright", and also Projection deal with the human ear's ability to detect, and the neural pathways to process the frequency data fed to it by the ear. Part of our interpretation of sound stems from the pathways established - i.e. sound memory - primarily from sounds in nature (although I am a big city boy and did not see a real cow until after age 5, I believe). Part of sound memory is, if not instinctive, evolutionary conditioned to process certain sound frequencies or patterns more readily. Alarm reactions given by many species are characterized by almost pure high pitched even harmonic frequencies. The human ear and brain process these even harmonic frequencies much more readily than odd harmonic frequencies. These are pure tones and of course the spectrum and patterns of frequencies from musical instruments are blends and subsets of odd and even harmonic series. The sound of rustling leaves or babbling brook contain more of the odd harmonic series of frequencies. There is some evidence that emotions are also conditioned by different frequency patterns.
As an example: the more even harmonic series pattern of the brass instruments (trumpet) is better processed, better perceived, has better perceived projection, and higher equilavent sound volume recognition than an odd harmonic series produced by the clarinet at equal sound frequency amplitude. Of course the differences are due to the basic acoustic principals of the cone for the trumpet and the closed tube for the clarinet.
Better projection of the clarinet is achieved by producing a "better perceived" pattern of tonal sequence for a given note - easier said than done. In another current thread about "Dark" tone, the elements that go into tone formation are discussed by a number of members.
(Disclaimer - I am the inventor of the Power Barrel)
An example of perceived sound volume enhancement can be achieved by augmenting the even harmonic frequency series of a clarinet by an acoustical hardware item. The perceived sound volume and projection are enhanced, albeit at the expense of the coveted "dark sound", by generating even harmonic frequency series that are better perceived by the human ear-brain. Special technology is needed to separate frequency amplitude measurements from "perceived" sound volume - this is proprietary information (but can be obtained from standard hearing test algorithms).
L. Omar Henderson
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