 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-26 02:07
So I was just informed that I will be covering the bass clarinet part in band for our competition in VA beach this Friday. I started the bass around september or october and don't play it very often. Needless to say I am not very experienced. I don't know too much about the bass (i.e. how it works). I noticed something though... it appears as though the register key has two tone holes and when playing upper register notes, the very top hole remains open, but when playing lower notes, it is closed. I noticed that the mid-line Bb is hard to get out, and sometimes the notes proceeding it have a buzzing sound to them and are out of tune (just to my ear, not according to a tuner). I then noticed that it seemed like one of the keys got stuck sometimes, and when I pushed the top key down to cover the hole, the Bb sounded perfectly. Sometimes the high notes had a harder time speaking (even if the top hole was open), but at least the Bb came out... but it only comes out if I close the hole or sometimes...if I'm lucky, it closes by itself.
my band director JUST sent it to a tech and it came back last week around tuesday I think. So he must have missed this problem.
I have noticed, since it has come back, that I am able to play the higher register much better than before (so he must have done something), but now there is this problem.
there is no time to send the bass to be serviced in any way, nor will my band director want to.
is there anything I can do to fix this?
-Lindsie
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-03-26 13:20
My first thot is "take it back to the tech, saying its an incomplete repair/adjustment". 2nd thot, if anyone on the BB here [NOT seeing the B C] Even Tries to help you, we must know what brand/model [plastic/wood?], and 1 or 2 register keys [ does it have a reg key on the neck??], Besides the pad which opens to give the mid-staff Bb. You prob badly need a Bass-playing clar repairer, who needs to spend some time, adjusting/playing/readjusting/replaying until this complex mechanism works WELL, eyeballing it just not enough !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Pete
Date: 2005-03-26 23:00
The ideal thing, or course, would be to play it for the technician. That would make it much easier to set up the instrument for you.
For instance, if your bass has any ring keys, the height could be set to correspond with your fingers. I have seen many very competant repair people set up instruments that work great for themselves, but forgot that the player who is actually going to play the instrument uses a mouthpiece, set of fingers, etc. that is so drastically different from the repairmans that the instrument does not function properly for the player.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-27 01:35
ah, yes...brand. sorry.
it is a wooden buffet... I haven't a clue as to what model, and can't seem to find it anywhere on the clarinet. The top (highest) register key is NOT on the neck. I saw a bass today that had that key on the neck and there is no middle joint (it didn't come apart), whereas this one does come apart in the middle.
just in case this info is needed: the MP is the buffet that came with the instrument, the lig is a rovner (not sure what type of rovner though...it's leather I think...) and reeds: Vandoren 3. I have switched from vandoren 3.5s and this has made a significant improvment.
I talked to a tech (not the one who worked on the bass) today and he mentioned something about two bridge keys, but I didn't notice this.
He also told me that the bass is so inttricate that HE spends extra time when working on them because they are hard to fix.
unfortunately I don't have the money or time to get this instrument fixed before wednesday night. and it's the school's instrument. it JUST came back and my band director, who is a brass player doesn't seem to understand the bass or the fact that it could have problems which are NOT attributed to the player! however, I see where he is coming from, since apparently not many schools buy buffet bass clarinets. (and I can see why, they are EXPENSIVE!!!) so he wants this thing to last.
anyway, for some reason it seemed to be working better today (go figure). I made sure to position the bridge key JUST right, turned the neck at a slightly different angle...I'm not sure if these things attributed to the Bb key working, but I didn't have any issues with that.
however, my third line B was rather fuzzy. I am sure that is me and not the instrument. I have the feeling that has to do with my tongue position.
anyway- I still would appreciate help since I am not sure if this Bb key will still act out.
and any help regarding the bass...embrochure...changing from register to register... posture...placement of the bass (how to hold it), etc. that would be awesome. I wont see my teacher this week (and haven't for the past 3 weeks because of various conflicts involving music festivals), so...
I think the visuals of some of the past postings on various issues (i.e. embrochure) are helpful, so if anyone has any pictures of how to proporly position and hold the bass and/or bass clarinet embrochure, that would be great.
thanks!
-Lindsie
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Author: ch
Date: 2005-03-27 14:26
it seems like you really have no experience in playing the bass clarinet. is your model a one with a low e-flat or a low c? buffet basses are normally a little sharp for the A(second space) and mid line B flat. you can try flattening them by pressing the key just below the register key (that would normally give u an F if you do not press any other key). i dont suppose that there is much a problem to the register key, just check that the black spring is still in place and working properly.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-27 18:43
just wondering if, when one starts out, are you supposed to get cramps in your right wrist? I remember when I first started the soprano clarinet I got thumb cramps, but strengthened the muscles...I was just wondering if it's the same for the wrist on the bass, or if perhaps I am doing something wrong to make it ache?
-Lindsie
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2005-03-28 01:10
Lindsie,
Well, good luck.
Here is some moral support, and probably not too much practical help.
I have been playing bass for about a year, and I think I understand some of the issues. Most of the advice you have been given here is ok. Some of what I say here, I have learned here; you've probably read some of the same.
Mechanically, a bass should be in good mechanical condition before you try to learn to play it. You may not have that luxory before Fri, and you probably will not play it as well on Friday as you will someday.
You seem to have a 'single register key' clarinet, an unclear term, with only one linkage across the UJ and LJ separation. Right? Pressing the register key, one vent opens for the throat Bb, and another, higher vent opens for all the clarion. Doesn't this make sense? We all know that the throat Bb is the worst note on our soprano clarinets because most sopranos only have the one little vent that Denner invented. (Many bass clarinets have "two register keys" like Don and your technician friend refer to. They are really two register vents for the clarion, the lower of which is used for the throat Bb. Those are more complex and have two bridge linkages. This doesn't concern you, I think.)
So study your Buffet's register mechanism and figure out how it works. You may figure out something to fix easily. It can't hurt to understand this. If you can't get it to work by Friday, oh well... You've learned something, anyway.
The lower clarion is more resistant on any bass clarinet, so simple practice will help you make sense of those notes. You have some improvement with reed selection and so forth. Good. There are millions of words about bass clarinet reeds and mouthpieces and embouchure here on this site. I think mostly use a medium reed, and practice. Practice things like very slow scales across the break. Teach your mouth how to sound fat, pretty notes. Someday a different, better mouthpiece may help, but you don't have that option now.
You shouldn't hurt when you play. Figure out why your right hand hurts and stop whatever you are doing. You have a peg? I hope so. Do you use a neckstrap, too? I think that will help a lot. Many people use both. The neck angle on old bass clarinets is closer to horizontal than on newer ones. Yours may be like this. That is a pickle; it makes the embouchure more different from your soprano embouchure than it needs to be. If so, this is more reason to use a neckstrap, so you can hold the bottom of the instrument back behind your feet to get that mouthpiece angled up more.
Little tips. None of what I wrote here is new, but it is all true for me. Many folk here have said that bass is really wonderful to play. I'm coming to agree.
Have fun!
Wayne Thompson
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2005-03-28 02:40
The Buffet Prestige basses have the register key on the neck - so this is probably an 1180 you describe.
My advice: Bass clarinet register keys are tricky and generally rely on a balance of tension between stronger and weaker springs.
If you can figure out the mechanism, you might try rebalancing the springs, but this requires a mechanical intuition far above average. If you don't grasp what's going on by taking a good look at it - take it to a tech - its a quick and easy repair for someone who knows what they're doing. They should be able to do it while you wait and it should cost a pittance.
However, unless your band director is a woodwind, I'd be hesitant to let him or her work on it. AFAIK, this mechanism is unlike any on any other instrument.
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Author: music_is_life
Date: 2005-03-28 02:58
!@#$%^ I knew I should have brought it with me when I took my soprano to my tech! arg! I was just a bit hesitant about bringing the school's instrument to a tech without permission and didn't want to ask him to work on it, especially because I wasn't sure if it would take long and I needed the bass (to practice...and for the competition...), and this guy lives about an hour away, so it's not really convinient.
anyway- I do have a peg. I'm not sure how high it should be...someone told me it should enter the mouth as though it were a soprano clarinet...not like a sax. I'm not really sure if I am doing it correctly. oy. it is fun and I think I play it well enough to perform. and one day I will be really good at the bass and be thanking everyone for their great suggestions. and myself for practicing it for like 4 hours a day!
well...back to more important issues: my wrist hurting...I have been trying to make it so that my thumb (on the thumb rest) is level with my pointer finger...is that correct? and I wrap my hand around the bass and hold my fingers the same as if I were playing the soprano...only obviously bigger. I honestly feel that it is just muscle strain coming from the foreigness of the hand position.
the model I am playing only goes down to the low Eb.
btw- thank you wayne...it is a single register key I guess. the top 'vent' doesn't open when playing the Bb, but does when playing the clarion register. but there is a 'vent' that is lower that does open when playing the Bb (and closes for the clarion register)...if that's what you mean...but it appears as though there is only one bridge key, so...
I shall try a neckstrap, thanks. I hope the school has one...![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
-Lindsie
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-03-28 13:39
Now that we are learning more about your B C, several of us who regularly play B C's [Dave Spiegelthal et al] will be able to give you helpful comments. You need to set the peg length so that the Full weight is taken off your thumb/wrist, and your right hand only "guides" against twisting and allows the best mouth position/embochure that the neck/mp provides. As to the mid-staff notes [B nat, C, C#, D, D#] which may not "speak" easily and clearly, it requires considerable expertise/experience to make any improvements. This is why the best B C's have the Double Register Key structure, YES, more complex/expensive, but when well adjusted, greatly improve the lower [and upper] clarion responses, like my Selmer 33 [low Eb]. In my experiences, only a few Single Register Keyed "big" cls [like my Selmer Alto] have been "well-tweaked" and are capable of a good clarion register. I also use a neck strap, tho its main function is to guard against dropping or banging my cl, with my best GLASS mp !! Others, HELP. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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