 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-03-18 22:35
I have a few stuffy resistant notes on my Leblanc LL. If i had even one stuffy note on my sax I'd get rid of it immediately. I still play the LL only because I hear others aaround me with similar stuffy notes. My question is then how many stuffy notes do you guys accept on your clarinets? ...is my horn normal??
There are a lot of threads here discussing which brand of clarinet produces the best tone. I'd rather have a clarinet that plays fairly in tune and has not a single resistant or stuffy note-
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-03-18 22:41
My Yamaha 52 is extremely stuffy in the third line B, the C, and the C# by the B. Also the 3rd octave C# is extremely stuffy. I find the B, C, and C# (in the middle range) to be stuffy on most clarinets. I don't know if this is acceptable. I know I don't like it at all and that it's extremely hard to staccato in those notes.
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Author: RAMman
Date: 2005-03-18 23:29
It's interesting how much 'stuffiness' is due to technique issues rather than problems with an instrument. The throat notes in particular need to be developed carefully. Blowing through the instrument properly is the most fundamental thing when it comes to playing the clarinet, but it's amazing how many people don't do it.
If your clarinet is in good working order, then this could well be the root of your problems.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-03-19 00:58
What notes are you unhappy with, SD? I have several Leblancs [and Selmers], and when I have little else to do, I play these sopranos, a couple of altos and a bass or so, listening carefully for poor notes [ intonation, fuzzy/stuffy, diff from adjacent tonalities] etc and see if I can improve them, often asking local and BB pro-repairers for advice and doing tweaking beyond my minimal skills. So. ask away, we have a goodly number of experts willing and able to help us. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2005-03-19 01:15
Hi,
The notes that CG106 mentions can be stuffy due to the pad height being too close. While I am not a tech, I have it on good authority that the pads for the notes in question should be slightly above the body of the instrument for proper venting (perhaps from one to two mm.).
First order of business, see if those pads are above or below the body. If not, show the isntrument to a tech for adjustment.
HRL
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Author: ron b
Date: 2005-03-19 01:59
Right on, Hank, Don.
A properly padded and adjusted clarinet should almost play itself - beyond that, as RAMman says, is up to the player.
How many stuffy notes would I tolerate?
None.
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2005-03-19 02:02
I sent back a Selmer 10G Clarinet that Gigliotti picked out in Paris from a stuffy low A.
Zero Tolerance for stuffy notes.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-03-19 18:03
SD - Since I opened this wormy can, the first thing I'd look at would be the highest pad on the lowerjoint [or its thickness] to see if it didn't "rise" enough to vent sufficiently, also it might prevent sufficient opening of the D pad [lower U J "front stack" pad]. A leaky ?torn? C#/Db pad could depreciate those notes. Hopefully Gordon NZ/ John Butler etc may read this , and give you the best advice. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2005-03-20 19:51
I had three stuffy notes on both my Opus and TR147.
I made a minor mouthpiece adjustment, lightened the reed by 1/4 et voila!
(No more stuffy notes - better overall response in the instrument.)
It's difficult enough to hack my way through charts, at tempo, without the instrument giving me trouble...
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Author: Contra
Date: 2005-03-20 20:02
I agree with David. One is too many. So, I don't have any stuffy notes.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-03-20 20:55
Get the clarinet thoroughly checked first.
Instrument possibilities:
1. Partially blocked tone holes, say with lint build-up. Especially, make sure the register vent is clean.
2. Pads not opening sufficiently, which can be from a cork too thick, a pad too thick, a pad poorly installed, or the geometry of the key needing altering.
3. Pad highly dented where the seating is - a problem with pads that are too 'squishy'.
4. Surplus material may need to be removed from the register pad, making an inverted cone shape - impossible with any type of membrane pad.
5. There may be a variety of small leaks all over the instrument, giving poor response, to some notes more than others. This poor response can be labelled 'stuffiness'.
Sometimes in a forum we can spend a lot of time trying to locate a specific fault, when actually we are dealing with an instrument in a very poor state indeed as regards the way it is set up, and this can apply to brand new instruments.
ANY clarinet can be made to sound stuffy - some notes more so than others - with a reed that is too hard (or inappropriate in design) for the set of parameters including embouchure, lip pressure on reed, breath pressure, mouthpiece configuration, etc. Some instruments, perhaps those with smaller-diameter tone holes, are affected more than others.
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-03-21 12:44
GordonNZ,
I'm at the point where I either want a repairman to get rid of the stuffy notes or sell it for another horn. Are stuffy notes correctable or is it highly possible that I take it to a reputable repairman where i spend lots of time and money and the notes still remain the same?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2005-03-21 13:40
You should specify what notes need be improved, ask for a cost-estimate, if a tech's work is insufficient, return it for more work or a refund. There are a few truly PRO tuner/tweakers, Moennig [decendants], Brannen, Butler etc, etc, and many of us "lesser pro" repairers or, like me, a "tinkerer". When we find a poor note or so by testing after minor repairs, with owner's approval, make minor adjustments, often with at least modest success, like my recent [student] bass cl "make it play" experience, its almost as good as my Selmer 33 !! Gordon's listing is very complete, p.e. . Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: ariel3
Date: 2005-03-21 14:02
How many stuffy notes do I have on my B-flat and A horns ??? NONE. And I will tolerate no more than that since I have a top flight technician. I let Tim do the setup since he is the expert - I am not. I just want to enjoy the beautiful sounds my horns are capable of producing. Nuff said.
Gene
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-03-21 15:04
My repair tech told me that there were some things he could try but it sounded like it would be sacrificing intonation. I cant stand having a note stuffy but I dont want to start having the whole horn playing out of tune with itself either. Maybe I'd have to sell it. Which is a shame because I love the tone
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2005-03-21 15:50
Gordon etal:
I understand the list wrt notes with open holes/pads. What do you do for a horn that has a stuffy "longest" note - eg: 3rd line B, low E?
Thanks,
Matt
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Author: Rene
Date: 2005-03-21 15:55
Stuffiness in B may be due to the right first finger (F) tone hole not closing properly. You can try loosing this finger when playing B and the tone will vanish. Either the player pushes to softly, or the bridge mechanism is misaligned. Do you also have troubles in trilling from G to F?
By the way, what is blowing through the clarinet? I mean, that is what everyone has to do to get a tone. Or is there any other way?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2005-03-21 16:24
Rene,
An alternative method of producing sound on the clarinet is to "suck", that is, to produce a partial vacuum at the mouthpiece end as opposed to a slight overpressure relative to ambient. I've been told that I "suck" when playing clarinet (or other instruments), so I assume that's what they're talking about.
![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-03-21 18:21
DavidS-
hmmm thats an interesting technique you mention. I have to say I usually "suck" when I play clarinet....is that why those notes are stuffy
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-21 18:44
I do agree that there's nothing more frustrating than stuffy notes and as usual Gordon is "right on". I tend to think of stuffiness as due to "leaks" during my troubleshooting process. In that respect a pad that seats correctly but doesn't open enough acts like a major leak. I also feel that too stiff a reed produces a "stuffy" sound and in this respect leaks in the horn prevent a proper stiffness reed from vibrating properly ergo producing a stuffy sound. Also, if you have ever made an empty beer bottle "whistle" you know that the air has to flow at just the right angle. At least these are the ways I think about the subject.
Bob Draznik
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-03-21 19:24
I'm real hesitant on taking the horn in to have all this checked out because my repair tech could not promise me the stuffyness would go away. It sounds like some clarinets are just going to have a few stuffy notes. I spent $300 dollars getting the horn practically overhauled a year and a half ago and these few notes remained stuffy. The rest of the horn really sang afterwards though. I noticed he "coned" off some of the cork pads but It merely improved the stuffiness. My side keys seem to be older pads and maybe thats why my Eb sounds like a wind storm. This tech is supposed to be very good so he would have noticed a leak.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-03-21 20:46
Take the side Eb key right off, and try Eb. If the stuffiness has gone, then was is to do with the venting, and can definitely be easily corrected. While it is off, check that the tone hole does not have lint build-up. I have seen tone holes with a sheet of lint blocking half way across the bottom of all small tone holes.
BTW, do you find other clarinets stuffy, using the same mouthpiece?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-22 15:52
"lint blocking "......or looking like a spider lived there.....
Bob Draznik
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-22 15:58
I re-read the original post....are we talking about the Ab sopranino clarinet??? If so.....who the heck plays these anyways....
Bob Draznik
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-03-22 20:33
If that is what we are talking about, then not enough have been made to find satisfactory compromises for acoustic design problems. :-)
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-03-22 21:44
Its a Bb...
Ok, I took off the Eb key and Eb sounds great- so does D if I put my finger over the hole. The cork pad under C below the staff is not coned off- maybe that would explain the C being resistant and stuffy. If I take off the bottom joint those notes sound great. First line Enatural remains stuffy even after the tech coned off the cork pad under it. I just read an article by Forbes discussing tuning and voicing the clarinet. He mentions that a stuffy E that is has proper venting is due to something having to due with the under cutting. He further states that one should be careful buying an instrument with those stuffy notes because it is difficult to correct...even if you like other aspects of the clarinet. Does that mean I have a lemon? Odd thing is I dont think my LL has undercutting...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-03-22 22:01
Deal with them one by one.
If removing a key corrects the stuffiness without unduly sharpening the note, or compromising consistency of tone with respect to neighbouring notes, then it IS an issue of venting. By some means the pad surface needs to lift further from the tone hole. Any good technician should be able to achieve this.
If removing a key does not correct the stuffiness, and the tone hole is clear of debris, THEN you have a more complicated problem to do with acoustic design, which includes undercutting, tone hole size and location, etc, and a great array of compromises, which the average good technician is probably reluctant to risk wrecking. It is easy to correct one problem and create several more. It needs an expert in acoustic design to make appropriate modifications in these cases. A FEW technicians have this expertise - I suspect very few indeed.
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-03-22 22:11
What are the chances that my clarinet is fixable due to venting vs unfixable by design? Do you often get name brand horns in your shop that are stuffy due to acoustic design or is that very rare?
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-22 22:22
How can it be a Bb with the model designation you gave it in your initial post?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2005-03-22 23:35
Do we really need to play guessing games?
Is your "Le Blanc LL" a soprano clarinet in D, as per
http://www.donmack.com/LeblancClarinets/D%20Soprano.asp
If so, then I would EXPECT it to have reached a relatively low stage of evolution acoustic design, simply because it is not worth investing megabucks for R&D for an item that has almost no market.
Nevertheless, I would expect to know what faults are due to acoustic design UNTIL venting issues had ben sorted.
MOST new clarinets, in my experience, have a venting issue - most often one or more of the following: side Eb/Bb, alt Eb/Bb, alt B/F#, C#/G#, ring keys, and register key.
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Author: sinkdraiN
Date: 2005-03-22 23:43
Sorry, I thought I was being picked on so I got a little sarcastic. The written word is tough that way.
I am talking about a Leblanc LL in Bb. It is a large bore instrument and is NOT polycylindrical. Leblanc only sells the LL as harmony instruments now (Ab, D, Eb. etc...) But my horn was made around 1977 I presume. It has an articulated G# and all the other trill keys. Plays VERY in tune and has a great sound otherwise.
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