 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Darrell
Date: 2005-03-20 11:06
I am planning to buy a Vandoren M15 Mouthpiece. However, fter reading other different forums, i have found out that the vandoren M15 mouthpiece works best with the buffet r-13. However, i'm currently using a Buffet RC. Should i go along and buy the M15 or does anyone have recommendations of a mouthpiece that works well with the Buffet RC?
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-03-20 12:53
The RC is France and Europe's entry-level professional horn. The primary distinction between the R13 and RC models is the contour of the bore; the RC is conical which promotes a seemingly more focused and channeled sound --- some contend a more resistant and/or compressed feel (similar to the Selmer Signature). It also produces a brighter timbre (or less dark?) then its R 13 American counterpart. The RC also has slightly improved intonation in the throat tones due to the register vent positioned 1 mm higher; the R 13 trade off is its standard fingering B-flat tends to be stuffier and less in tune.
I believe we're splitting atoms here, and personally don't support the theory and practice of matching up mpcs solely by instrument bore, design or barrels. I recommend selecting and comparing mpcs against themselves and based on skill level, genre of play and instinct, comfortability and performance demands. Don't choose mpcs based exclusively on specs. v/r Ken
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-03-20 13:48
"The RC is France and Europe's entry-level professional horn"
Maybe that is true in theory. Entry-level makes it sound like it is not as good as the "more advanced" professional horns.
Except this, I agree with everything ken said.
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-03-20 17:50
clarnibass wrote: "Maybe that is true in theory. Entry-level makes it sound like it is not as good as the "more advanced" professional horns."
--My definition of an "entry-level" professional line clarinet is an instrument that by merit of craftsmanship, sales or popularity becomes an industry pillar; a musical instrument that sets the standard of excellence others are measured and emulate --- I believe the Buffet R-13 to be such a clarinet. In this comparison, an (altered bore design) RC R-13 B-flat or A, 13-key nickel-plated with buffet pads and no upgrade hardware, and that comes in a molded plastic hard single case with no cover is an "entry-level" professional line horn.
Additional justification: on my last look at the models in question, Buffet offered an RC R-13 [Standard line] and RC R-13 Prestige [Premium line] models. The features and philosophical differences include, but are not limited to:
1) Personal opinion
2) Marketing hype
3) RC Prestige is advertised having a more carefully selected, denser wood
4) RC Prestige has optional articulated/auxiliary keys
5) RC Prestige has metal tenon caps
6) RC Prestige carries a higher price tag
7) Teachers are pumping (free or paid promotional) advice into students on which model is better and for what style of music its best suited
8) More marketing hype with famous clarinetists posing in pictorial close-ups and smiling in a seductively romantic haze while caressing their instrument to the side of their face
9) More personal opinion
10) Whatever mom and dad can afford to buy
On a personal note, the subjectively preferable "entry-level" R-13s are the horns produced from the mid to late 1960s or early 1970s. You can slap on and blow into a rotted tree trunk on those and they sound great. v/r Ken
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-03-21 03:40
mystery science dieter wrote:
> Way to answer they guy's question! BRAVO!!!!
And your contribution to the question is exactly what?
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2005-03-21 03:56
Don't let the fact that the M15 is optimized for the R-13 stop you. Try it on the horn you plan to use it on, of course. Some time back I bought an M13 Lyre (also optimized for the R-13) to use on my Signet 100 and it works great. Works fine on my R-13 as well, but I keep it in the same case as my Signet.
Give the M30 a try as well, as it's sort of an evolution of the M15.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Karel
Date: 2005-03-21 09:46
I am not sure that I would agree with Ken's definition of "entry level". An industry pillar would sound more like "a gold standard". For example, the Merc 180 is said to be the entry level model to the marque. The term implies that there is more and better to follow; or am I entirely up the creek??
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-03-21 10:54
If MSD's comment is indeed an agreement to the responses in a positive light, I apologize. I took it as a sarcastic comment considering that the responses to that point had very little to do with concrete suggestions for a mouthpiece suited to the RC, but took a different turn.
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Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2005-03-21 12:26
I have an 'entry level' RC. As an amateur, It does me fine. I call it 'entry level' because it is not a Prestige or Vintage model. I bought it new last June, and it came with silver plate keys and a Buffet Deluxe case. My local music shop charges the same for RC's as it does for comparable R13s. They told me that, in simple terms, different tradeoffs have been made in the designs of the RC and R13. Quality wise, there is no difference between them. Playing wize, the 'better' on is the one you prefer when you play them. I tried several RC's and R13s, and in general preferred the RC.
To answer the original question, I use a Vandoren 5RV lyre mpc, with the Buffet-suppied lig and Rico GC Evolution Select #3 reeds.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2005-03-21 16:31
I will give an example. One of my favorite clarinetists is Sharon Kam (I know many here do't like her but that doesn't matter). She is one of the top soloists in the world today. She plays a Buffet R13 (not a Prestige) with nickel plating. Entry-level instrument? I bet her clarinet is better than a lot of Prestiges and Vintages.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-03-21 19:14
I use the M15 right now and have for the last 2 1/2 years. I play on an intermediate model Yamaha (the YCL52) and it works just fine. Now a YCL52 would be way different than the RC, so if it works for the YCL52, it should work just fine for the RC. This is only my theory though, so don't count it as fact.
Have you looked at the M13? It's supposed to be really good too. You can always try different kinds of mouthpieces through a trial plan through WWBW. Go ahead and try a few different models and see which one you like the best. Don't just limit yourself to the M15 just because you've read about it. Try it and others too and see which one feels right, has the best tone for your kind of music style, and which one has the best intonation, etc.
Hope I could help! Sorry if I didn't.
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Author: Clarinetgirl06
Date: 2005-03-21 19:16
Oops I forgot to say something...
I had tried my teacher's Clark Fobes San Francisco OM* and it was way freer than the M15. With the M15, it felt like I had to battle with the resistance on each note. I'm going to be buying the Fobes CF+ soon. So as I have already said, try it before you buy it! Also, explore other brands than just Vandoran too.
Hope this helps! Sorry if it doesn't.
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Author: ken
Date: 2005-03-22 00:00
Jack Kissinger wrote: "13-key?"
--apologies Jack; I meant 17-key --- definitely a middle-aged moment.
mystery science dieter wrote: "Way to answer they guy's question! BRAVO!!!!"
--I only mean to help people, not rip anyone apart when engaging in debate. There's clarinetists on this board who forgot more than I know about music. After posting on the board for some years, I've also been somewhat conditioned (in part by the Webmaster and idol GBK) to support my position with facts, or opinion based on facts, or at least real time experience on the topic. Cheers! Ken
Post Edited (2005-03-22 00:11)
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