 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Liam
Date: 2005-03-13 01:49
Hey everyone, I was wondering if you guys could help me out with something...
Whenever I play I sometimes get this small squeaking noise on different notes, whether i slur up, down, or if I`m just attacking a note by itself. My teacher and I have no idea what the problem is and it`s really getting in the way of my progression as we`ve been spending all of my recent lessons addressing this issue. I play in several orchestras and groups and I am going to make a career out of being an orchestral clarinetist (I`m 17 right now). This problem is not noticeable in soloes within a large ensemble (I just played principal clarinet on Tchaikovsky 6th and I can't hear the squeak sounds on the recording) but my fear is that it will hurt me in college auditions and solo playing. It is also very annoying and I am at the point where it will probably start to discourage me from practicing.
I tried 3 other clarinets with different reeds, mouthpieces, and ligatures, but the same problem occurs, so I am pretty sure that the source of the problem is me and my embochure. However, I have not changed my embochure for 3 years so I do not understand why this problem has just started occuring.
Can someone please help me out?
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2005-03-13 02:13
When a reed does this, its because its not balanced side-to-side.
As I understand it, a squeak is when the reed takes up a tortional mode of vibration (twists).
If this is happening regardless of clarinet, reed, or mouthpiece (if it was the horn, I'd check for a weak or loose G# throat key or something similar - are you resting your palm on that key in any way?), I'd have to guess that you're favoring one side of your embouchure or twisting your horn.
I assume you've tried different mouthpiece alignments?
Another thing that would stabilise the alignment of your horn would be a neckstrap.
I hadn't noticed (though I even mine out) that Vandorens also tend to be a little harder down one rail - have you tried a different reed brand (are you using Vandorens exclusively?)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2005-03-13 02:15
You say you play in several groups. Does this tend to happen after you've been playing a while? Perhaps you need to rest a bit. Take a week off.
What kind of squeaking noise? Could we possibly get a sample of it?
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: hans
Date: 2005-03-13 02:24
Liam,
Here is a list of possible causes to check. From what you have described, it should be easy to rule out some of these and narrow down the cause of the problem. I have marked with an asterisk the ones that I would check first.
Regards,
Hans
a dry reed
* accidentally touching a key
* the bridge (middle) joint in a clarinet is not properly aligned
using a "wrong" fingering instead of a better alternate
* a finger not covering a hole
a pad not seating properly
a weak spring not holding a key closed
keys out of adjustment (e.g., the A key)
* unco-ordinated fingering
a leaking joint
a cracked instrument (in a wood clarinet)
* too much mouthpiece in the mouth
a burr on the mouthpiece top rail
* misapplied lip pressure
a reed is split
the reed is not perfectly sealed on the mouthpiece
a reed is too thin at the center of the tip or is stiffer on one side than the other
a poorly designed, worn, or warped mouthpiece (a warped mouthpiece can be refaced)
the mouthpiece baffle (the slanted top inside the tip) is too high
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2005-03-13 04:41
Does the squeak happen right at the beginning of the note? Is it continuous? Does it come and go?
If it's just at the beginning, my guess would be some sort of embouchure movement right at the moment your air hits the reed. This can (and does) cause squeaks.
If that's it, then the "fix" would be to get your embouchure ENTIRELY set before you begin to blow...
Katrina
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Author: Liam
Date: 2005-03-13 06:21
Shorthand- I think you are right about the issue with my embochure not being balanced. My top left tooth is slightly shorter than my right one (I slightly chipped my left tooth a while ago), and to correct this I have been twisting my mouthpiece in order to correct for it. Putting a piece of paper under my left tooth slightly corrects the problem, but it still happens. Maybe I will try using a neckstrap.
This Tuesday, I am going to start trying a new box of reeds as I have only been using vandorens for the last 8 years or so. I was deciding between vandoren v-12 #3.5 and #4 reeds, but I am seriously considering switching to Regatti Gold 4 Light. I am hoping that once I find some good reeds, it will correct the problem and if not, I will look more into adjusting my embochure.
Alex- the problem usually starts right when I take my clarinet out so I don't think the issue could be occuring due to playing for a long time. The squeaking noise is not a loud one that people make every once in a while due to an open whole or something. It's more of a high pitched sound that occurs only at the mouthpiece and resembles the same sound as if you were to press your bottom lip into the reed so hard that it slightly closes it and all you hear is a squeak.
Hans- I will keep in mind all of the possible reed issues that you have given me when I start playing on the new reeds. I think that the problem of a reed being too thin at the center of the tip or being stiffer on one side than the other is a very possible explanation of the squeaks I am getting.
Bradley- I've tried playing double lip embochure but it hasn't corrected the problem. Maybe I will try playing with a double lip embochure for 10 or 15 minutes every time before I practice though, because I think the problem could also be that I'm putting too much pressure on the reed from my bottom lip. I think I'll give those reeds a try and do you know how I could go about getting one of those adjustment systems?
Katrina- The squeak does only happen at the beggining of my notes, but whenever I concentrate on having my embochure perfectly set, the squeak still occurs (mostly on high notes above the staff and on middle B above the break).
Thanks for helpin me out guys, I don't think I'll be able to solve this problem by myself.
Post Edited (2005-03-13 06:41)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-13 21:05
If you realize that you can produce upper register notes without using the register key maybe you can accept the possibility that you are tightening up your embo. unconsciously at times...just enough to produce a partial upper register note...i.e. a squeak....just a thought
Bob Draznik
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Author: luckyclarinettoenla
Date: 2005-03-14 15:41
Hi Liam!
I used to have the same problem. The squeak you're getting is more than likely the 12th of the note that you're trying to get. All of the suggestions posted are great but I have a feeling that your solution might be a simpler one. I was finding that doing all of this did help, and I managed to control the "squeaks" coming from my playing-- ( I had to be really really careful during orchestral performances) and I found that I did not ever have this problem playing on A clarinet versus Bb clarinet. One day during a practice session, I realized why that was. It is ALL about embouchure. My A clarinet is slighly heavier than my Bb therefore when playing it comes closer to my body. Not a whole lot closer but enough to put me in the correct playing position. I tried this with my Bb and noticed that immediately the squeak was gone and my tone (which incidentally is my claim to fame) drastically improved. In a nutshell, try playing standing up for a little bit (gravity will help you) and bring your bell closer to your body. You'll have to experiment with how close, but I have a feeling that this will help you out a lot! Let us all know how you make out!
Lucky
Never fool yourself into believing that today's 'good enough' will do tomorrow!
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2005-03-14 16:41
Liam -
I would suspect equipment.
First, put your mouthpiece on another instrument. If that cures the problem, you have a leak. It only takes a small one to cause squeaking.
Second, try another mouthpiece. Even a slight unevenness or ding on lay or the tip, can cause the squeaking. Take off the reed, dry the mouthpiece and hold it with the lay facing upward and a bright light reflecting off of it. They, keeping your eyes in the shade, roll the mouthpiece back and forth slowly, so you can see the reflection of the light moving along the lay. Look at the corners of the tip particularly carefully. It's easy to create a leak by bumping the corner against a wall or a stand.
It's easy to leave a tiny opening at the corner of the tip when you put the reed on. Try moving the reed up a small amount -- only the thickness of a light pencil line.
If you have clipped the tip of the reed, the curve may not match the tip, leaving a place at the corner where the reed doesn't seal.
Finally, reeds that are too thin at the corners cause squeaks.
Let us know if any of these ideas help.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bigno16
Date: 2005-03-14 19:37
Hey Liam
You might remember me, I sat next to you in the District Orchestra this year and also played with you in FWE.
I was actually going to suggest a lot of what Ken had to say, and he's one of the most respected and helpful on this board so hopefully that helps you out.
When I've had what sounds like your problem, it's most always been an imbalanced or faulty reed. Though, considering you've tried everything, I would next suspect equipment (as Ken said), followed by embouchure. Perhaps you're doing something differently but don't realize it.
If you're still having the problem and have tried everything else, perhaps you should also take a visit to Albert Alphin's store (I think I'm correct in assuming you've been there before) and have him take a look at your clarinet and/or listen to you play.
Good luck. And did you do All-States this year? If so, perhaps I'll see ya Thur, Fri, or Sat.
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Author: Joe B
Date: 2005-03-14 22:49
Hi Liam
I was getting a sweak as you call it. I called more of a chirp at the beginning of a note in the same range you were mentioning. Ken Shaw hit the nail on the head with the tip of moving the reed up no more than a pencil line. That's what cured my chirpping as I call it and I think that may possibly be your answer too.
Joe
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Author: Liam
Date: 2005-03-15 02:22
Hey Mike, how's it going.
I didn't try out this year because I just started goin to Walnut Hill (music boarding school in Natick) and they don't let us do all states or districts or anything! But I hope you have fun there this week.. tell everyone I say hi. (by the way, I'm seeing Albert this Wednesday to do some repairs on my clarinets... it's always interesting seeing him.)
I just changed my reed type and got a new box of reeds and so far, 5 reeds don't make the noise, 4 reeds do, and i threw one reed away. So I'm still not sure whether the problem is the reeds or not and I'm gonna keep working with it.
Thanks guys,
Liam
Post Edited (2005-03-15 02:32)
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Author: Shorthand
Date: 2005-03-15 03:56
Liam,
Try lucky's suggestion - its a very good and simple one. As for Ken's suggestions about leaks, I'd actually disagree. In my experience, a leak doesn't often cause the chirp you're describing, but instead a sustained squeak. In addition, you said that you've swapped out all of your equipment at various times. - That leaves you as the only common denominator.
With your tooth issue, I think it may be hard to keep your moutpiece straight on a soprano clarinet. There is no support system I know of for a soprano that doesn't give it at least some tortional freedom.
Going to a double-lip embochure might be the only viable substition besides dental work.
You need to steady up the platform that your mouthpiece is "resting" on which is your upper jaw. You might find a more creative way to do it, but I think double-lip or dental work are your best bets. At least talk to a dentist and see if you can't come up with a cost-effective solution.
For the double-lip solution, I'm sure everyone will have some suggestions, but it is a valid embouchure and could be your most cost-effective (though also most painful) solution. I believe a neck strap (a good one that attaches to a post coming off the bottom of the upper ring of the lower joint) should help stabilize the horn in such a way that you don't need to press too hard against your upper lip as a pivot.
Best of luck and let us know how it goes.
All that being said, a neck strap (like I said, a proper one that attaches to one of those post thingys on the upper ring of the lower joint) is worth trying. It will definitely give some tortional stability to the instrument, but it may not be enough.
If you have that kind of tooth chip - you should also put pretty thick pads on your mouthpieces. I have a gap between my two front teeth and will gouge a mouthpiece pretty bad without good padding on top (I bet you're doing this already, but its cheap and might just help).
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2005-03-15 07:53
What you describe sounds pretty much like an embouchure biting/tension issue. These incipient squeaks at the beginning of notes I often call "pressure squeaks" as they seem to be driven by the exteme inflexibility of the lips. Go back to a relaxed, chilled-out and soft bottom cushion under the reed. Allow the bottom lip to have almost no "set" to it, yet keep about the same bite with the teeth. This will be the difficult bit...relaxing the lips but not giving up the bite with the teeth. Stay in the chalumeau register for a while till you get used to it, and then turn the traditional embouchure changes (a smiley emb. for upper notes) upside down....relax the lip even more as you go higher.
H Klug
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