 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wfo600
Date: 2005-03-01 21:49
I was at the local music store looking through the used mouthpiece box (any piece for $5!) and bought two Gigliotti P pieces. These are mint and unused except that they were washed in hot water. (Hot enough that they are leeching color and taste bad. They are no longer dark black, they are now a dark brown color. Typical of a hard rubber mouthpiece that was washed in too hot water...) Is there any way to bring these suckers back to life? For $5 a piece, I thought I'd try as they still play great, but are unusable as is because of the strong rubber taste. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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Author: wfo600
Date: 2005-03-01 23:08
That looks like good stuff to clean the piece, these however aren't dirty. They are leeching carbon black from the rubber itself...
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-03-01 23:43
I have been recently looking into restoring discolored - green and brown - older mouthpieces and it is indeed a daunting task and some rather complicated chemistry which I must admit that I have not fully figured out as yet - still working on it. The green color is usually associated with photoxidized sulphur compounds which are really weird. Weird in the sense that they are not reduced by normal redox chemicals once formed. The brown color may indeed be some leaching of the carbon black but also has come sulphur associations by another chemical mechanism.
If anyone else has the answer please let me know because I am as interested in this phenomenon as anyone!
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2005-03-02 00:07
The only solution I have found is using Gel Gloss or buffing them out with a leather or chamois buff, sometimes both. There was a thread awhile back by MW and he states that a bleach solution works well. I remember reading an old NAPBIRT Technicom that states that some type of amonia works, but it has been years since I read the article. This wasn't your household amonia though. I'll have to research that and get back to this thread if I ever find it.
jbutler
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Author: hornfixer.geo
Date: 2005-03-02 00:39
There is a buffing compound for plastic, it also works well on rubber.
I have had some good luck buffing hard rubber with "white" chrome compound on a cotton buffing wheel. You can't buff everywhere, but it helps the large areas.
1973 Allied Graduate
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Author: wfo600
Date: 2005-03-02 04:24
Great guys, this is really helpful. I guess for $5 a piece, I could really mess them up and not be out much at all.
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Author: donald
Date: 2005-03-02 04:52
in the last few years i have refaced two Gigliotti mouthpieces that had "gone green" (in one case, a more browny green) and both play fine without any work to restore the black colouration. Neither of these was green enough to actually taste bad.....
the washing in hot water has most likely warped the facing, so look into getting them refaced
donald
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-02 12:43
Was the "washed in hot water" a fact or an assumption?
Bob Draznik
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2005-03-02 13:30
Try this thread:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=52139&t=52002
I have used mw's technique in the past on an old mouthpiece to see if it would work. It does. The mouthpiece turns black but is rather dull and may show the ligature outline. I have found that light polishing with Flitz makes the mouthpiece shiny again. (Buffing would probably work even better but I don't have the equipment for that.) The downside is that you undoubtedly remove some of the material but, in the case of the mouthpiece I tried this on, I did not notice any significant difference in playing characteristics. I suspect that more than a few of the old mouthpieces on eBay that look brand new have been subjected to this treatment.
The above treatment does appear to introduce a "sulphur" taste. In my experience, however, the taste eventually goes away with use.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: wfo600
Date: 2005-03-02 22:24
BobD, I guess it is assumed that they were washed in hot water because I'll never really know for sure. I do have some experience with what happens to hard rubber mouthpieces when washed in hot water though... Why do you ask? Is there another way that they would start leeching color? If you rub a paper towel over them, the towel picks up a brown color from the piece.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-03-03 03:32
Attachment: Beginning03.jpg (123k)
Attachment: Finished03.jpg (100k)
Well, after some more experimentation I was able to develop a process (do not ask me what) to bring back several green and brown hard rubber mouthpieces to black again without an extra added buffing step at the end. The trick is a two step chemical treatment but unfortunately a little tricky and time dependent and therefore not a DIY project. Attached are photos of a beginning step with the mottled brown-green on the left of the MP and a partial treatment on the right. The finished MP is shown in photo two. The finished looks a little brown but this is only the flash lighting - it is black.
L. Omar Henderson
Post Edited (2005-03-03 03:34)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2005-03-03 12:40
"Why do you ask?"
I'm just a curious guy and it was stated with such conviction. I'm under the impression that, given normal usage, these old hard rubber mps change color ....it's part of their nature.
Omar...nice photos. And...your process even lightened the table!
Bob Draznik
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2005-03-03 13:08
Doc Henderson,
Awesome job. Looks nice.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2005-03-03 20:36
Hope that the "do not ask" was not taken in the wrong way because I love to share information that is of general use and to debunk many of the old wife's tales that abound in the woodwind community. I treat many of the problems encountered as challenges and that is all.
Sometimes the areas of experimentation are proprietary in nature to my business and others not suited to a general audience. Being a bench level chemist for years and interacting with gaggles of beginning college chemistry students I have experience as to what chemicals and what procedures would be safe for non-chemists to attempt. The chemicals used in the restoration of the discolored MPs are not readily available and the conditions and timing of the reactions are critical. Wrong timing and wrong conditions might ruin an otherwise great but discolored MP. Also, I have not tested the playability after treatment but hopefully suspect that it has not changed.
The challenge of course is to make an easy, robust, and safe treatment to restore discolored mouthpieces. My initial success fuels my satisfaction quotient at having met a test of my skills but none of the other elements of a commercial application or something available for general use at present.
After figuring out some of the chemistry involved in the discoloration process I would suggest not exposing old hard rubber mouthpieces (or restored ones) to direct sunlight and would also use a protective coating of wax to limit oxidation. Discoloration of a treated MP may reoccur.
L. Omar Henderson
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Author: wfo600
Date: 2005-03-04 22:24
Thanks guys for so much help! I think I'll get out my dremel tool, a little polish, and see what can be done...
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